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View Full Version : TVNZ Tivo Is a Lemon



Hitech
07-03-2010, 03:41 PM
With only 2000 people sighned up this service in my view is a lemon waiting to be squeezed.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/article.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10630444

maccrazy
07-03-2010, 03:47 PM
I wouldn't give that article too much credit for accuracy, that's not to say the 2000 figure is wrong, but note the following:


A spokeswoman called the 2000 figure "completely inaccurate", but said the company had a policy of not disclosing sales numbers and would not comment further.

prefect
07-03-2010, 03:53 PM
Dont tell Johcar her loves his tivo.

R2x1
07-03-2010, 04:11 PM
A spokeswoman called the 2000 figure "completely inaccurate", but said the company had a policy of not disclosing sales numbers and would not comment further.
When asked if the real figure was as much as 2,500, the broken spoke said she could not disclose that, but they were expecting a "party for the 2,100 th customer about March 2011, certainly before another 500 sleeps, so there." and stuck her tongue out.

Hitech
07-03-2010, 04:23 PM
Basically all it is is a Hd version of freeview in which they charge you the thick end of $920 for it, Waste of money when you can but a freeview decoder with a usb port to use as a pvr for $200 or less.

Cato
07-03-2010, 04:38 PM
Basically all it is is a Hd version of freeview in which they charge you the thick end of $920 for it, Waste of money when you can but a freeview decoder with a usb port to use as a pvr for $200 or less.

+1.

Sweep
07-03-2010, 04:46 PM
+ 1 as well but no one forces you to get one. It's called choice.

Cato
07-03-2010, 04:51 PM
A silly and expensive choice.

But hey, if you got spare cash, why not?

johcar
07-03-2010, 05:05 PM
Yes I do love my TiVo. :)

However the sales figure isn't all the Herald has got wrong. I don't know what the deal is with the subscription service (MySky), but the TiVo only has two tuners, so you can record two channels and either watch one of those channels or watch a prerecorded program (or a movie downloaded from CASPA - if you're a Telecom BB customer).

However TiVo has features that other PVRs don't have, like "TiVo Suggestions", where you can set a preference for the types of programmes you like (either in a specific Settings function or but using the Thumbs Up button on the remote while you're watching a program) and then the Tivo will use HDD space that has not been allocated to specifically requested programs, to record programs that you may not be aware of, or that you may not have previously considered watching. These are automatically deleted if they are taking up HDD space that is needed for something you have specifically requested to be recorded.

I don't know whether other PVRs have a prioritised auto-delete function, but this is also a feature of TiVo.

CASPA is a feature for Telecom BB customers that enables you to 'rent' a movie or TV program via your BB connection. Prices are a little less than video store prices, you have 7 days to watch a downloaded movie/program, but once you've started watching you have 48 hours - but you can watch it as many times in that 48 hours as you like.

TiVo has a computer interface also - called TiVo Desktop - whereby you can download recorded programs from your TiVo to watch on your PC (or other HDD) or convert the movie to a format to watch on your chosen mobile device.

You can also access music and video content on your PC from your TV via TiVo Desktop and TiVo.

The stupid thing about that Herald item is that they make a point of mentioning that TVNZ invested $10M in juxtaposition to the fact that sales are allegedly slow - trying to imply that it's a bad investment because it's not going to pay off in the first year. I think even TVNZ bean-counters are smart enough to recognise that a $10M investment in a new product (for NZ) is not a short-term return investment!!

The main difference between MySky and TiVo is that TiVo is a one-off purchase, but MySky is a lease + a monthly subscription.

I think I'm better served by free-to-air TV - being able to record what I want and watch at my leisure is better for me and my family than slowly bleeding my wallet dry for SkyTV.

I especialy loved this bit on P2 of the Herald item:


Technology commentator Peter Griffin has an office opposite a Telecom store and said staff were struggling to shift the boxes.

"There's a guy standing there all day, trying to drag everyone who comes through the door over to a pile of TiVos," he said. "And no one's interested because they're there to buy mobile phones. It's pretty sad."

He said there was a thriving resale market for digital recorders and TiVo's low presence on Trade Me was "pretty telling".

There were only four boxes listed on Friday and no bids on any of the auctions.

Sellers of the boxes, which sold for $920 when the service launched, have set "buy now" prices as low as $550.

"That shows the uptake has been incredibly poor," said Griffin.I don't think one store out of the dozens of stores around the country is indicative of anything!! I bet this guy buys Lotto tickets with his own numbers and thinks he has a better chance of winning than someone who takes a Lucky Dip!!! :D

And the "TiVo's low presence on Trade Me" could just mean that everyone that has bought one is hanging onto it - and the $370 discount from new on the one with a Buy Now of $550 could just be indicative of someone trying to raise some cash fast.

If the sales numbers are low (there's no official figures), then maybe this could be a symptom of the recession that NZ is starting to come out of...

R2x1
07-03-2010, 06:06 PM
Anybody who is likely to wander into a Telecom store has probably been conned every 15 metres since he left home on his first day of school, so is absolutely skint.

And of course you should pick your own lotto tickets (unless you are a Telecom customer), Lucky dips often give dumb numbers. How many times have you won Lotto with a lucky dip? Q.E.D.

kenj
07-03-2010, 06:41 PM
I have one... Brilliant machine. Bought me peace and quiet from my luddite SWMBO. The first machine she can use without my help. And yes, I had a USB one and set top box...and so on and on.

I am going away at Easter and I have downloaded all Billy Connolly's arctic series to my laptop for my sister to see (She was away when they were first on). Just a matter of hooking a HDMI cable from lappy to TV and viewing in HD.

MySky Hdi constantly pixelated when viewing HD and after several lots of hassle trying to tell this to the "Tech" person, ended up telling them where to put it. Apart from the odd sports program, I don't really miss it.

Ken

pctek
07-03-2010, 07:18 PM
I've seen the ad.

I don't want my PC photos on my TV.
I don't want my TV programs on my computer.
And I sure don't want an internet account with Telecom just so I can do these things.

pcuser42
07-03-2010, 08:04 PM
I don't want my PC photos on my TV.

Neither do I.


I don't want my TV programs on my computer.

I do, it'd be nice at times.


And I sure don't want an internet account with Telecom just so I can do these things.

Big Time FTW. ;)

R2x1
07-03-2010, 08:09 PM
Big time fails this week?

pcuser42
07-03-2010, 08:18 PM
Big time fails this week?

FTW really is a misleading acronym then. No failures since we signed up sometime last year.

R2x1
07-03-2010, 08:34 PM
Another Telecom failure to deliver on the promises. Typical ;)

pcuser42
07-03-2010, 08:35 PM
Another Telecom failure to deliver on the promises. Typical ;)

They promised to fail? Since when? :confused:

R2x1
07-03-2010, 08:37 PM
FTW really is a misleading acronym then. No failures since we signed up sometime last year. From a usually reliable source ;)

pcuser42
07-03-2010, 08:38 PM
From a usually reliable source ;)

Yes, that source being us, the consumer. ;)

R2x1
07-03-2010, 08:40 PM
Confused ;)

pcuser42
07-03-2010, 08:41 PM
Confused ;)

You, maybe. Me, not at all.

Hitech
07-03-2010, 10:42 PM
Im sure telecom are racking there brains to use confusion against you for your tivo to convince you you are getting a good deal for in excess of $900 to convince you to believe that 12 channels is worth that much.

When all you have to do is pay sky $99 for my sky HDI and you have in excess of 100 channels and does the same as tivo + sky announced last week that more features will available on its set top boxes (my sky hdi) later this year.

johcar
07-03-2010, 10:49 PM
$99 for MySky HDI, PLUS an ongoing monthly fee for the subscription.

And in my experience, more channels does not necessarily translate to a greater quantity of quality viewing.

robbyp
07-03-2010, 11:08 PM
The thing that annoys me every time I see the tivo ad on TV, is the woman saying you can view tv on your itouch. There is no such thing as an itouch, it's an ipod touch or an iphone. Doesn't instill me with much confidence when they don't know the names of the technology.

Plus the fact that TVNZ are now getting into bed with Sky TV, with broadcasting older NZ TV programs on a pay only TV channel, ignoring both Tivo and Freeview, which are formats they have a financial stake in. It is almost as though they are trying to degrade the value of freeview and tivo.

johcar
08-03-2010, 12:03 AM
Seems that many people know the iPod Touch as the iTouch (sounds vaguely wanky to me!): http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=itouch

It does seem odd that TVNZ and Sky are playing together (although Sky transmit all the free-to-air channels, as well as their own expensive offerings).

I suspect there are a couple of departments at TVNZ that are not aware of what the other department is up to.

You get that with the big jobs (you can interpret "jobs" the way a parent describes excrement to a child, if you so wish)

Sweep
08-03-2010, 12:11 AM
iPrefer "A wee jobbie"

pctek
08-03-2010, 08:35 AM
$99 for MySky HDI, PLUS an ongoing monthly fee for the subscription.



Being with Ihug I can't even think of a good reason to get MySky for free every month as part of their offereing.

Chilling_Silence
08-03-2010, 09:25 AM
I'm with johcar, I signed up for TiVo and have been stoaked ever since.

Previously I had one of the Vantage HD 6000T/NZ boxes, cost me ~$250 (Without a HDD), but they were far from ideal. Sure it was good for viewing HDTV from, and it gave me a taste of what a real PVR could be like, but it crashed regularly (I had the latest firmware), the recordings weren't reliable, the navigation nowhere near as nice, the EPG was an epic failure and there was no easy way for me to get recordings off the box, even though I was recording to an external HDD.

Sure if they've only sold 2 -> 3,000 since the start of the campaign the they're incredibly short, but let's be realistic and say that if they're hoping for market penetration of 120,000 homes, then that's potentially 25% over the next 5 years.
Keep in mind that as a country we're all still coming out of a recession, and you'll see that the goal is incredibly optimistic in anybodies book, especially considering many people aren't accustomed to the whole idea of "Watch when I feel like", or the other great PVR features like "Pause / rewind live TV". No more need to take in / out tapes from the VCR ;)

Fail article IMO, but I'm biased, I love my TiVo...

johcar
08-03-2010, 09:37 AM
:clap:clap:banana:clap:clap

Zippity
08-03-2010, 09:55 AM
Isn't Tivo just a cheapman's MySky? :D :D

johcar
08-03-2010, 09:58 AM
Yep!!! With a prettier interface! :D :D

R2x1
08-03-2010, 10:00 AM
Isn't it only capable of recording rubbish?
Or does it have some way of getting an input other than broadcast TV?

johcar
08-03-2010, 10:02 AM
:D Recording rubbish, yes. But - you can view stuff you've downloaded from the Interweb.

Oh! Just realised that probably falls under the same category... :D

Hitech
08-03-2010, 10:14 AM
I hardly call $920 for tivo cheap

Metla
08-03-2010, 10:29 AM
It records TV?

What a novel concept.

Lucky they didn't call the original VHS recorder "Watch on Demand" or they would have to think of another wanky phrase to describe recording television.

paulw
08-03-2010, 12:41 PM
If the regulators in NZ had more balls they would have insisted that Tivo also had access to a Sky paycard like in the US to break the monopoly on Sky's MySky box..

Agent_24
08-03-2010, 12:42 PM
I wouldn't buy any of them, my VCR still works perfectly.

For anything else, there's Bittorrent.

johcar
08-03-2010, 12:51 PM
If the regulators in NZ had more balls they would have insisted that Tivo also had access to a Sky paycard like in the US to break the monopoly on Sky's MySky box..

Except that isn't TiVo's busniess model (in NZ anyway - I don't know what it is in the US).

MySky is a commerical enterprise leasing a multi-tuner box plus selling "special interest" channels (their core business) and TiVo is just selling a fancy Freeview box, with the ability to interface with your PC and download a selection of movies on demand.

A much simpler business model with a lot less overhead.

Chilling_Silence
08-03-2010, 01:57 PM
All I can say is "Don't knock it 'til you've tried it".

Once you've had a Full HD TV, with a decent PVR like MySky or TiVo, then come comment ... ;)

wratterus
08-03-2010, 02:11 PM
All I can say is "Don't knock it 'til you've tried it".

Once you've had a Full HD TV, with a decent PVR like MySky or TiVo, then come comment ... ;)

Yeah +1 on that, last time I was in palmy I saw a setup with MySky HDi, a 46" 1080p LG TV and a nice pioneer sound system...it was quite nice. :thumbs:

Chilling_Silence
08-03-2010, 02:44 PM
I know it sounds kinda elitist, but it's so hard going back and watching poorly compressed shows, videos from a VCR, or even good ol' non-digital SD TV :p

wratterus
08-03-2010, 02:45 PM
Lies, not elitist at all. I compare it to having Jessica Alba for a week, then having to settle with Amy Winehouse. :lol:

prefect
08-03-2010, 02:47 PM
Lies, not elitist at all. I compare it to having Jessica Alba for a week, then having to settle with Amy Winehouse.

Ha ha :)

Cato
08-03-2010, 02:51 PM
Lies, not elitist at all. I compare it to having Jessica Alba for a week, then having to settle with Amy Winehouse. :lol:

Sometimes... homosexuality is a good alternative...

Metla
08-03-2010, 02:51 PM
All I can say is "Don't knock it 'til you've tried it".

Once you've had a Full HD TV, with a decent PVR like MySky or TiVo, then come comment ... ;)

The problem as I see it is everything on TV is well worth missing, adding extra pixels isn't going to make it worth watching.

Metla
08-03-2010, 02:53 PM
Sometimes... homosexuality is a good alternative...

I'd take Amy Winehouse over turning gay any day of the week thanks.

Metla
08-03-2010, 02:58 PM
God damn shes ugly

wratterus
08-03-2010, 02:59 PM
She is disgusting eh. Still, I'd rather that than batting for the other team. :xmouth: :yuck:

Scouse
08-03-2010, 03:36 PM
those pics remind me of a butcher's dog I got paid to take for walks after school more years ago than I care to think about.

Cato
08-03-2010, 03:45 PM
She is disgusting eh. Still, I'd rather that than batting for the other team. :xmouth: :yuck:

A week with that, and you won't be batting with ANY team ever again.

Hitech
08-03-2010, 04:04 PM
What has that comment go to do with this thread.

SolMiester
08-03-2010, 04:48 PM
TIVO is a poor HD MySky box

pine-o-cleen
08-03-2010, 05:00 PM
Technology commentator Peter Griffin

Lol.






Anybody?

robbyp
08-03-2010, 05:26 PM
I know it sounds kinda elitist, but it's so hard going back and watching poorly compressed shows, videos from a VCR, or even good ol' non-digital SD TV :p

I would go for a Tivo if it was about $400. I see there are quite a few on trademe now for around the $500. Tivo at the moment is way overpriced, and the way sky price theirs is far more attractive, and if you ever have a problem they just replace it. Also in the US, they have just released a new Tivo which is far better than the one offered in NZ. Its remote even has a slideout keyboard.

prefect
08-03-2010, 05:54 PM
What has that comment go to do with this thread.

Its a comparative statement and quite a good one in fact its a superlative comment that you should run with it.

Metla
08-03-2010, 06:28 PM
What has that comment go to do with this thread.

This thread now contains a secondary topic, By calling attention to it we now have a thirdary:banana topic.

R2x1
08-03-2010, 06:39 PM
Dammed diversionary reactionary bourgeois traitors.

ubergeek85
08-03-2010, 06:52 PM
If the regulators in NZ had more balls they would have insisted that Tivo also had access to a Sky paycard like in the US to break the monopoly on Sky's MySky box..

Yeah, good luck with that. Sky use NDS VideoGuard to encrypt their streams. Normally, with encryption systems like this, such as IRDETO and Nagravision they offer a 'CAM' (Conditional access module), based off of the PCMCIA format, and provided by the content provider, that sits in between the decoder and smart card, allowing any conforming box to view subscribed channels, while still allowing the provider to turn off/change stuff if need be.

Quite a smart setup really, buy your own box, pay your sub, get your card and CAM, and do as you please.

NDS don't allow removable CAMs. They make a handful, but only for internal engineering use. It's not supposed to leave the NDS headquarters. No, really. I've seen one though...

The reason they do this is because allowing a standard CAM would potentialy allow crackers a foot in the door. Not what NDS wants. Instead, they only allow pre-approved boxed to be built with the VideoGuard CAM embedded directly, at the CPU die level. Good luck with that if you want free TV.

They simply don't allow boxes/CAMs to be made for their system, as a security measure. It might seem overkill, but VideoGuard has been one of the most secure pay-tv encryption systems, and that's for a reason.

So, to sum up, an official public NDS VideoGuard CAM will never, ever be avalible. Only pre-approved boxes will be.

There are boxes out there that can decode VideoGuard with an official card (DreamBox, anyone?), but they can only decode for a few days at a time, as sky (and everyone else with VideoGuard) slightly change the encryption, and they update the card to keep it working, but nobody knows how to update the smart card yet.

[/techno-wank]

wratterus
09-03-2010, 09:34 AM
Lol.






Anybody?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

johcar
09-03-2010, 09:46 AM
Lol.






Anybody?

Lightbulb just came on (it's only 40w!) - Family Guy!!

decibel
09-03-2010, 09:03 PM
I'm waiting to see what this (http://news.cnet.com/8301-30686_3-10465778-266.html) is all about.

Digby
09-03-2010, 10:06 PM
But the girl advertising it on tv could come round and install one for me !

I wouldn't touch anything Telecom do, but I believe that tivo sells quiet well in the States.

paulw
10-03-2010, 08:28 AM
But the girl advertising it on tv could come round and install one for me !

I wouldn't touch anything Telecom do, but I believe that tivo sells quiet well in the States.

Different marketing model in the states. TiVo is used over different pay platforms..