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View Full Version : 10 yr old debt-debt collectors-wat the?



cazzsa
23-02-2010, 04:51 PM
:mad:have just received letters regaurding a debt from 10 years ago , infact so long ago i know nothing of it.
I have just tried to find the statutes of limitations(however a little confusing) , can someone if they know , fill me in , muchly appreciated
cheers

Cato
23-02-2010, 04:53 PM
Citizen's Advice Bureau - 0800 367 222 - is whom you should call.

wratterus
23-02-2010, 04:54 PM
Call the C.A.B., I'll try and find the number for you...

Edit, nevermind. Cato is onto it.

cazzsa
23-02-2010, 05:00 PM
why thankyou for your speedy replies:)

Sweep
23-02-2010, 05:02 PM
Have a look through this thread:-

http://pressf1.co.nz/showthread.php?t=106891

pctek
23-02-2010, 05:50 PM
Baycorp??

Supposed to be 7 years if you pay it eventually and 5 years if you don't.

But of course they NEVER remove you from their database.

prefect
23-02-2010, 08:37 PM
If you owe it pay it.

WalOne
23-02-2010, 10:29 PM
I don't think you should be worrying about any statute of limitations. Some company or person, thought you were worthy of credit and in good faith extended that credit to you.

You accepted that credit / goods / money and gave an undertaking you would pay it back.

I agree with Prefect: if you owe it, pay it. :(

tweak'e
23-02-2010, 10:33 PM
or it could be a lazy debt collector sendign the same thing to mulitable people hoping someone will pay, especially if they don't remember it from that far back.

Greg
24-02-2010, 09:02 AM
Some debt collectors spend their lives trying to extort money owed by the companys who employ them.

I once had an outstanding debt about 20 years ago. The company appointed a debt collector scummy, filthy son-of-a-biatch to recover the goods (a bedroom suite).

The low life pond dwelling SOB couldn't re-take the suite, so he broke in through a window and stole my valuable coin collection.

Recently I had a debt collector trying to extort money from me for an outstanding debt - just 80 bucks. I threatened to whack the crap out of him, and this wimp (although he was probably 110 kg's and 6'+ tall), instead of facing me, called the cops. I was issued with a warning by the cop.

In retrospect, as he was trespassing, I shoulda just beat the crap out of him and be charged with a defence of self defence.

prefect
24-02-2010, 10:59 AM
Debt collectors have a job to do and thats to wring the money out of reluctant payers.
I hate with every bone in my body people who dont pay their bills.
Debt collectors need to get their paperwork in order all ducks in a line and get court orders with court bailiffs to seize stuff. I was talking to a debt collector in New Lynn and he loves it when the debtor starts some biffo they just call the police and then can seize heaps more stuff and under police protection. I used this guy twice but he takes 30% of the money he collects basically I am petrified just talking to the guy for no reason. If he came after me I would give him everything and then some absolutely scary fellow.

pctek
25-02-2010, 04:08 PM
Recently I had a debt collector trying to extort money from me for an outstanding debt - just 80 bucks. I threatened to whack the crap out of him, and this wimp called the cops.

In retrospect, as he was trespassing, I shoulda just beat the crap out of him and be charged with a defence of self defence.

You can't beat anyone up.
Unless they hit you first. And then you are allowed to defend yourself only, not beat them to a pulp.

blanco
25-02-2010, 08:02 PM
In the U.K. The debt you mention would be considered as STATUTE BARRED and not legally recoverable but perhaps this does not apply in N.Z.
Many old debts are sold off cheaply to 3rd party collectors who make a good living by scaring the "debtors", many of whom are not aware of their legal rights.

Statute Barred

A debt is considered Statute Barred if a creditor has not contacted a debtor for a period of 6 years and no action has been taken on the account.

Although the debt is still legally acknowledged as being owed, the creditor is not able to take any legal action against the debtor in order to recover the debt. It is considered unfair if a creditor or debt collector misleads the debtor into believing the debt is still legally recoverable. It is also considered an unfair practice if the creditor or debt collector press for payment after the debtor has stated they will not be paying the money owed. This could amount to harassment contrary to Section 40(1) of the Administration of Justice Act 1970


What to do if a creditor contacts you after six years

Don't admit to owing the money

Once you agree to owing the outstanding amount within 6 years of the debt being due, then you are required to pay the debt back and the creditor can take steps to have the collection of the debt legally enforced by a court (see above County Court Judgement).

If a payment is made after a 6-year gap, the Limitations Act 1980 is still enforceable and the debt remains Statute Barred. However, in this instance, it is unlikely that you will be able to claim back any payments made after the 6 years from the creditor because you still owe them the money.

If a creditor, who you haven't had any communication with for 6 years contacts you about the debt you should write to them quoting the Limitations Act 1980.

As I mentioned at the start, this law applies in the U.K. so you need to check what applies in your country.

Erayd
25-02-2010, 09:07 PM
If a creditor, who you haven't had any communication with for 6 years contacts you about the debt you should write to them quoting the Limitations Act 1980.I disagree - you should pay them their damn money, with profuse apologies for taking so long to do so. Anything else is blatant theft, and in my opinion is extremely unethical. If you owe someone, you should pay them - end of story. The legal technicalities shouldn't come into it.

WalOne
25-02-2010, 09:26 PM
I disagree - you should pay them their damn money, with profuse apologies for taking so long to do so. Anything else is blatant theft, and in my opinion is extremely unethical. If you owe someone, you should pay them - end of story. The legal technicalities shouldn't come into it.

x2

rob_on_guitar
25-02-2010, 11:05 PM
Ive had accidental debt collectors.... that was weird.

blanco
26-02-2010, 12:36 AM
Erayd & Walone,
many people fall into debt for reasons other than evasion, such as long term ill health, unemployment etc and are UNABLE rather than UNWILLING to settle the debt. Some of these are able to recover from their misfortune, some
do not.
I know a man who 15 years ago underwent radical surgery and
chemotherapy for cancer and has not been able to work since.
His bank to which he owed 2k was presented with an affadavit of his financial circumstances and he heard nothing more for 12 yrs.
He was then contacted by vulture debt recovery scumbags who had purchased the old debt for peanuts. They hounded him for months for the full 2k which he was unable to pay from his state pension and threatened him with all kinds of nasty consequences.

He took legal advice from the internet, wrote to the collector quoting the law and promised to sue for harassment. Upon realization of the "debtor's" awareness the collector chickened out and promised in writing never to make further contact (to save his own arse & protect his biz).

This is just one example of the requirement for Debt Collection Law.

To assume that all who default on their loan responsibilities thoughtlessly is a very blinkered view. Banks and other large financial companies know this and accept that they will have to write off some debts but will still be able to pay annual mega bonuses to their executives.

By the way the example above is not fictitious - the "debtor" was Me, now retired. If you search for other such examples, you will find thousands, All of whom Prefect says he "hates with every bone in his body" - WOW !

The ones to hate are those who buy these debts and make a lucrative profit from their intimidating, threatening and sometimes violent methods used to recover the debt, very often from elderly infirm people.

If you would like to read some case histories I will give you some links.

Erayd
26-02-2010, 01:37 AM
...many people fall into debt for reasons other than evasion, such as long term ill health, unemployment etc and are UNABLE rather than UNWILLING to settle the debt. Some of these are able to recover from their misfortune, some do not.That's a good point - in a position such as that defaulting may be the only option.

Situations such as the ones you describe above are proportionally rare though - most bad debt is caused by the debtor's poor judgement or ethics.

blanco
26-02-2010, 02:54 AM
BAD debt? Define.

prefect
26-02-2010, 07:29 AM
Might be ok in pomland not to pay your debts, its not ok here.
Its just a character thing, good people pay their bills bad people dont.
I got caught out 6 months ago when my mechanic did a job on a truck without checking whether they had an account. The sneaky bastard managed to get hold of my boys mobile number and rung him direct.
Kept saying he would pay when he got some money in, went around to his yard for the umpteeenth time and the office lady said he was in Cook Islands on holiday with his family.
Got mad went back to yard that night removed power steering box from the KW truck and took it home.
They called police who said it was a civil matter. Driver came around with cheque which I ripped up, driver came back with cash all sorted.
I had bay corped him and still havent told baycorp I got the money so he wont get credit ever again in this industry. I rung every parts place and every engineering place in West Auckland said dont do any work for this clown he does not pay his bills. Some laughed and said we know.

blanco
26-02-2010, 08:31 AM
Prefect,

The person who started this thread stated that he had no knowledge of the alleged debt. This is often the case and many mistaken debts are pursued by 3rd party collectors without any statuary court procedures taking place.
There are also many cases of debt brought about by circumstances beyond the control of the person involved, one of which I have described.
The laws of Statuary Limitation and Disbarred Debt were introduced for good reasons. For you to say that you disagree with these laws is arrogant and ill conceived and to describe all "debtors" as bad people is uneducated, stupid and inflexible.
You also say "its a matter of Character" and go on to proudly describe your own "over the top" vindictive actions against another person. Some character display. An anagram of Prefect is Perfect - I don't think so.

prefect
26-02-2010, 08:48 AM
Comparing poverty rock and NZ wont work. Since around 1850 we have been enacting our own laws.
I always pay my bills on time if it came down to paying a bill and my family not eating the bill will still get paid.
I like the usa where if you are delinquent in paying your bills you can be sent to jail.
You are right I am uneducated just a peasant boy from Nelson.
Whats over the top in collecting money due to me should I just write if off like thats ever going to happen even if the person dies I will chase the estate.

Erayd
26-02-2010, 10:57 AM
BAD debt? Define.
By bad debt I mean debt that for whatever reason is not paid back at the agreed rate, by the agreed date.

R2x1
26-02-2010, 10:59 AM
" 10 yr old debt-debt collectors-wat the? "

Is this the youth rates starting early?

blanco
26-02-2010, 11:03 AM
You seem to miss the point of the thread , which was
the time lapse without communication from the creditor
before the debt was chased by the 3rd party. This is
the very reason for Statute Disbarred Debt law which
exists in most modern countries, INCLUDING all states of
the USA. I would be very surprised if NZ has no such law.

When I said you were uneducated, I was referring to matters
of Law and Rights, nothing else. In your case described earlier
you were of course right to pursue the person who owed you
for the truck repair but but would have been wrong to do this
10 years later without chasing the debt in the interim period
(especially in the method you employed).
Anyhow, we look set to be in disagreement forever, so I will
exit this thread unless you come back with something sensible
and I'll wish Cazzsa good luck if he is genuine.

R2x1
26-02-2010, 11:12 AM
. . . so I will exit this thread . . .
The leek has stopped?

prefect
26-02-2010, 11:14 AM
Its a question of honour. He should ask for the invoice he knows if he has paid it or not. Selective memory loss and statute of limitations wont help the matter.
If he says does not owe the money then in NZ the debt is called disputed and debt collectors wont go near it with a barge pole.
But disputed money is easier to get these debtors are clever and dont dispute the debt because as soon as they do it can go to court.
The lady who does my accounting and invoices encourages them to dispute the bill.
I then sell her the debt and she goes to court and adds on the collection costs.
We have never lost yet.

blanco
26-02-2010, 11:58 AM
How many times can you miss the point ? Cazzsa's
original post and all my posts have referred to new
demands after 10 years without claim.
You haven't failed to recover your payments you say
but have you pursued a debt after 10 years ?

R2X1: What are you going on about ? If you want to
contribute, say something relevant or of substance.

B.M.
26-02-2010, 03:12 PM
In 1987 I ordered some Aus Cash and Travellers Cheques from The National Bank so as to take my family on holiday. There was ample money in my account to cover the request but they never actioned my request. When I got to the bank on Friday afternoon to pick my money up there wasn’t any :( and things turned nasty.

After a heated exchange with the manager I demanded my account be closed and the balance given to me in cash.

So off I went with full pockets to a crowd of money exchangers called Thomas Cook (what ever happened to them) and they supplied me with cash and Travellers cheques.

Anyway, some time later I get a note from the bank saying there was money outstanding on my Credit Card. Tuff, was my response, you were given the chance to make full and final settlement when I closed my account.:( And then the fight started again.

After a brief exchange of unplesantries the matter died what I thought was a natural death, but then in 2002 Baycorp came knocking. Baycorp had purchased hundreds of thousands of Bad Debt off the bank and were going to demonstrate how to collect it.

15 years later! :eek:

Yes, all the standard threats, something I’ve never responded well to and she was on again.

Now, I can’t give you a conclusion, because I don't know if there’s been one, but they never got a cent off me and in the meantime Baycorp found they weren’t better than anyone else at recovering debt and the thousands they paid for the bad debts was an awful investment.

I believe they were saved from complete extinction by some merger arrangements with another company.

My understanding is that there is a Statute of Limitation in NZ but interpretation of it can be tricky.

I'll teach the sods for not having my money there on time. :D

Sam I Am
26-02-2010, 06:44 PM
How many times can you miss the point ? Cazzsa's
original post and all my posts have referred to new
demands after 10 years without claim.
You haven't failed to recover your payments you say
but have you pursued a debt after 10 years ?

R2X1: What are you going on about ? If you want to
contribute, say something relevant or of substance.

Far be it from me to point out the obvious, and I appreciate you are trying to help the OP, but advice given from a person on the other side of the world with little or no knowledge of the law here is really not helpful at all.

If owed the money, then no matter the amount of time that had passed I would pay up.

blanco
26-02-2010, 07:39 PM
I take your point regarding my remote location but from
the thread it appears that you guys share my lack of NZ
debt law. This may help to enlighten :

http://www.lawaccess.lsa.govt.nz/Lrm_v2.aspx?BookId=86&ChapterId=12

An extract:-

Is there a time limit for recovering a debt?

Yes – a debt must be recovered within six years. This time limit starts from when the debt is owed, unless you acknowledge the debt or pay part of it, in which case the time limit starts from the date of acknowledgement or of the last part-payment.

This seems clear to me. I Hope it assists the thread starter.

Sweep
26-02-2010, 07:59 PM
I take your point regarding my remote location but from
the thread it appears that you guys share my lack of NZ
debt law. This may help to enlighten :

http://www.lawaccess.lsa.govt.nz/Lrm_v2.aspx?BookId=86&ChapterId=12

An extract:-

Is there a time limit for recovering a debt?

Yes a debt must be recovered within six years. This time limit starts from when the debt is owed, unless you acknowledge the debt or pay part of it, in which case the time limit starts from the date of acknowledgement or of the last part-payment.

This seems clear to me. I Hope it assists the thread starter.

Sigh.

If anyone had bothered reading my post number 5 and my link to this thread:- http://pressf1.co.nz/showthread.php?t=106891 they would have read "The Statute of Limitations means that a debt cannot be enforced 6 years after it was last acknowledged by the debtor."

So at least I was not confused I'm pleased to say.

blanco
26-02-2010, 08:12 PM
Sorry, Sweep - missed your post but I have confirmed
what you pointed out. Think i'll drop this now - getting
that ad nauseam feeling.