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nofam
18-02-2010, 11:40 AM
I'm sure this is a total noob question, but I can't figure out how to point aptitude at a mirror for KDE.

I've uncommented the locations in /etc/apt/sources.list, and I know the proxy settings in apt.conf are working as I can do an apt-get update fine?

When I try to apt-get install kde I just get a Couldn't find package error.

Sure it's something simple I'm missing??

:blush:

Sweep
18-02-2010, 11:47 AM
The command line I used was #apt-get install kdm kde-core

Then it will bring down the rest of the package.

nofam
18-02-2010, 11:54 AM
The command line I used was #apt-get install kdm kde-core

Then it will bring down the rest of the package.

Yeah tried that too, with same result - does apt-get use FTP? Because I've only added an entry in apt.conf for http proxy authentication?

Sweep
18-02-2010, 12:02 PM
Haven't had it long enough to know but I never configured a proxy. I download it from the NZ site and I see that the address was http://ftp.debian something

Erayd
18-02-2010, 12:46 PM
...I've uncommented the locations in /etc/apt/sources.list...Which locations, and why? KDE is in the main repositories, you don't need to uncomment anything to get it.


...When I try to apt-get install kde I just get a Couldn't find package error.That's extremely strange. What does the command 'apt-cache search ^kde$' give you?


The command line I used was #apt-get install kdm kde-core

Then it will bring down the rest of the package.That won't get all of kde unfortunately - kde-core will just pull down a 'barebones' kde, and kdm is the graphical login manager. If you want *all* of kde, run 'apt-get install kde' - everything else will then come rocketing down the wire :).

This (http://packages.debian.org/lenny/kde) should give you some idea of what you're missing.


Yeah tried that too, with same result - does apt-get use FTP? Because I've only added an entry in apt.conf for http proxy authentication?It can, but doesn't by default.


Haven't had it long enough to know but I never configured a proxy. I download it from the NZ site and I see that the address was http://ftp.debian somethingThe primary NZ mirror for debian is http://ftp.nz.debian.org/debian/ - it's managed & hosted by citylink. If for any reason you need to use another mirror, I'd recommend http://mirror.pacific.net.au/debian/.


One more point of note - Lenny uses KDE-3.5.x by default; 4.x will be included with the next release. You can add 4.x to Lenny, if you wish, by adding the 'testing' repositories to your apt config. Note that adding these has implications for the rest of your system and requires changing some other settings too; I don't recommend it unless you know what you're doing.

Sweep
18-02-2010, 01:22 PM
"That won't get all of kde unfortunately - kde-core will just pull down a 'barebones' kde, and kdm is the graphical login manager. If you want *all* of kde, run 'apt-get install kde' - everything else will then come rocketing down the wire ."

Just doing that and beleive me when I say it won't come rocketing down the wire.

I've blown my data cap!!!

Erayd
18-02-2010, 02:07 PM
Just doing that and beleive me when I say it won't come rocketing down the wire.

I've blown my data cap!!!Ouch... that's never fun :(.

nofam
18-02-2010, 02:09 PM
Which locations, and why? KDE is in the main repositories, you don't need to uncomment anything to get it.

The only uncommented source was the debian .iso I installed from originally. The two commented out were security.debian.org & volatile.debian.org.


That's extremely strange. What does the command 'apt-cache search ^kde$' give you?

Nothing :crying



Since posting this, I added //ftp.au.debian.org/debian/ testing main, and was then able to successfully apt-get install kdm, but I still can't get kde-core?

And what's the syntax for adding sources, just so I'm sure - each source has two lines, and appears to need a further path name after the last directory (i.e. the / testing main as above?)

Erayd
18-02-2010, 02:26 PM
The only uncommented source was the debian .iso I installed from originally. The two commented out were security.debian.org & volatile.debian.org. Aaah, that explains it. Sounds like your reporitories were never set up to begin with, and you didn't have a full set of install media.

Nuke the entire contents of /etc/apt/sources.list (either by commenting out or by deleting the lines) and replace with the following:
deb http://ftp.nz.debian.org/debian lenny main
deb http://ftp.nz.debian.org/debian-volatile lenny/volatile main
deb http://ftp.nz.debian.org/debian-security lenny/updates main
Once you've done that, run 'apt-get update'. Note that you'll probably have quite a few updates to install after this.


Nothing :cryingThat's because you didn't have the repositories set up, and kde isn't on the media you installed from - hence it doesn't appear to be available. After setting things up as above, the kde packages will become available.


Since posting this, I added //ftp.au.debian.org/debian/ testing main, and was then able to successfully apt-get install kdm, but I still can't get kde-core?Remove that - it's somewhat slow. Use the mirrors I've given you above.


And what's the syntax for adding sources, just so I'm sure - each source has two lines, and appears to need a further path name after the last directory (i.e. the / testing main as above?)
The syntax is one repository per line. The first item is the repository type (deb=binary, deb-src=source packages), the second is the mirror path, the third is the repository path, and any subsequent arguments are the names of repositories that can be found at that path (Debian generally has main, contrib and non-free available).

This syntax can be munged around a bit and still work (because it's often just a single path broken into sections), but it's generally best to stick to the above - particularly if you end up later using a tool that expects the proper format.

fred_fish
18-02-2010, 02:39 PM
... and don't mix stable & testing.

Use either stable + backports, or do a full upgrade to testing.

There are now too many differences in core library dependencies.

But if you know what to do with the two parts that you will get to keep ... go ahead :)

nofam
18-02-2010, 02:50 PM
Ok - the new sources worked, and updated fine, but when I ran apt-get install kde it came back with the following error:


Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have requested an impossible situation, or if you are using the unstable distribution that some required packages have not yet been created or moved out of Incoming.

The following packages have unmet dependencies:

kde: Depends: kde-core (>= 5:47) but it is not going to be installed
Depends: kdeaddons (>= 4.3.3.5) but it is not going to be installed

E: Broken packages

Erayd
18-02-2010, 02:57 PM
... and don't mix stable & testing.He's not - Lenny is stable. Squeeze is the current testing.


Ok - the new sources worked, and updated fine, but when I ran apt-get install kde it came back with the following error:
Run 'apt-get dist-upgrade' first, let it install all the updates, and then reboot. Once that's done, try 'apt-get install kde' again. You probably have an outdated package that's causing a bit of grief. Another possibility is you've manually installed a specific version of something previously.

fred_fish
18-02-2010, 05:12 PM
He's not - Lenny is stable. Squeeze is the current testing.

Yes I know, but
Since posting this, I added //ftp.au.debian.org/debian/ testing main, and was then able to successfully apt-get install kdm, but I still can't get kde-core?
He now has the 'kdm' package from testing (and whatever dependencies that pulled in), and
The following packages have unmet dependencies:

kde: Depends: kde-core (>= 5:47) but it is not going to be installed
Depends: kdeaddons (>= 4.3.3.5) but it is not going to be installed

E: Broken packages
is apt bitching about kde depending on the version from squeeze.

I suspect that libc6 got updated in the previous process and trying to go back to the Lenny version breaks apt & dpkg as they will now depend on the new libraries.
I recall un-breaking that mess and it being a long and tortuous adventure, that I learned a lot from, it must be said, the most important of which was "don't mix stable & testing" :)
Since it is a fresh install, and if 'stable' is what you are after, the fastest fix is a reinstall.
Otherwise, change your sources.list to back to 'testing' and finish the upgrade.

EDIT: Doh! Those version numbers are from Lenny.

aptitude will start aptitude in interactive mode, and you can mark kde for installation and it will show you the dependency issues and give you some options how to fix it. I still think it will be fubar though.

fred_fish
18-02-2010, 05:43 PM
Here (http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/kdm) is the list of dependencies that will have been pulled in with kdm.
You are not running 'stable' anymore.

Erayd
18-02-2010, 07:43 PM
Yes I know, but...Crikey - well spotted!

Nofam - fred_fish is right about the dependancies being pulled in from testing. You can do a forced downgrade (messy, but it usually works), or you can reinstall - I'd strongly recommend reinstalling. And this time, *don't* add the testing repositories - just add the ones from my earlier post, and nothing else :p.

Sweep
18-02-2010, 07:57 PM
Hopefully I'm not in the same boat having downloaded the net install (Lenny) about 130 M/b and then done a couple of apt-gets.

Still getting KDE :-) and another 4 hours to go..

Erayd
18-02-2010, 08:13 PM
Hopefully I'm not in the same boat having downloaded the net install (Lenny) about 130 M/b and then done a couple of apt-gets.Unlikely, unless you've gone and manually added repositories for something other than lenny / stable.


Still getting KDE :-) and another 4 hours to go..Ouch indeed... that's horribly slow!

nofam
18-02-2010, 08:50 PM
Thanks Erayd/Fred - I figured I'd borked something by downloading from the wrong repo so I blew the install away and now have KDE :-)

Next question - how do I get rid of everything GNOME-related? Is it just a matter of using dpkg |grep gnome and then purging any packages I find? Or is there a nice, scripted removal of GNOME/GDM?

Erayd
18-02-2010, 11:35 PM
Next question - how do I get rid of everything GNOME-related? Is it just a matter of using dpkg |grep gnome and then purging any packages I find? Or is there a nice, scripted removal of GNOME/GDM?
The best way was actually to not install it in the first place... That said, now that you've got it, it's probably easier to just leave it there.

If you do want to remove it, you'll need to get a (recursive) list of the entire dependency tree for the gnome meta-packages, and then remove every package on that list that isn't also needed by something else on the system. IOW, it's a total pain in the ass; it's much more involved than simply grepping something.

If you installed gnome after you did the main system install, then 'apt-get autoremove' will remove any un-needed dependencies. Sadly, this doesn't work for stuff that was installed during the initial system setup (or at least it didn't last time I looked - that may have changed now though, so it's worth a shot).

Edit: Do not rely on anyone else's 'remove gnome' scripts - they will usually break things, sometimes in quite nasty ways. If you find one you want to use, post it here first and I'll take a nosey at it to make sure it won't damage your system.

KarameaDave
18-02-2010, 11:53 PM
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=mepis:2cents:

fred_fish
19-02-2010, 12:42 AM
If you remove the gnome desktop metapackage then do an 'apt-get autoremove' it will remove all packages that were installed as a dependency but are no longer required by any installed packages.
This may be more than just your unneeded gnome stuff so pay attention to the list.
You can set any that you want to keep, as NOT auto installed with aptitude

Erayd
19-02-2010, 07:58 AM
If you remove the gnome desktop metapackage then do an 'apt-get autoremove' it will remove all packages that were installed as a dependency but are no longer required by any installed packages.Does this now work for packages selected during the install? It wasn't capable of this in the past (because the version of apt used for the installer wasn't able to track auto / manual package installs), but I wouldn't be surprised if that's changed - it's been a while since I've used the installer.

fred_fish
19-02-2010, 08:30 AM
ah, ok, never noticed that.
I usually do a base install, then pull in what I need.

nofam
19-02-2010, 08:43 AM
The best way was actually to not install it in the first place... That said, now that you've got it, it's probably easier to just leave it there.



How do you not install it in the first place? I don't recall seeing an option to install without a gui, or even pick the packages I wanted; there was a roles selection option (desktop, laptop, web server etc).

Would I have to download the binaries and compile my own build sans all the Gnome stuff (and include KDE at that stage)?

Will have a hunt around for the recommended way to uninstall Gnome and report back! :D

This is so exciting - learning heaps! And Linux is so much nicer to use than AIX!

:punk

Sweep
19-02-2010, 09:16 AM
I think I'm going to blow away my install of Debian and download Mepis instead.

I too had no option about Gnome desktop and wanted to use KDE. I note that Mepis seems to come with KDE anyway. Probably my first mistake was downloading the minimal net install. I spent most of the day yesterday getting KDE as my data cap went and about an hour short of completing I lost my connection with the server.

I too think it's a bit of a learning experience but I'm sure I'll work it out.

Erayd
19-02-2010, 09:55 AM
How do you not install it in the first place? I don't recall seeing an option to install without a gui, or even pick the packages I wanted; there was a roles selection option (desktop, laptop, web server etc).The installer should give you the option of choosing 'desktop', 'server' etc - just de-select the 'desktop' option. If the standard one doesn't, run the 'expert' or 'expertgui' installer (type this at the boot prompt on the install cd).


Would I have to download the binaries and compile my own build sans all the Gnome stuff (and include KDE at that stage)?No - nothing like that! Debian is generally very easy.


Will have a hunt around for the recommended way to uninstall Gnome and report back! :DThe recommended way is autoremove if available, otherwise the deptree method.


I think I'm going to blow away my install of Debian and download Mepis instead.Wha..... why?


I too had no option about Gnome desktop and wanted to use KDE. I note that Mepis seems to come with KDE anyway.See above - the option is called 'desktop'.


Probably my first mistake was downloading the minimal net install. I spent most of the day yesterday getting KDE as my data cap went and about an hour short of completing I lost my connection with the server.Minimal netinstall is actually the best way of doing it - otherwise you end up downloading a lot more, most of which you either don't need or is out of date.


I too think it's a bit of a learning experience but I'm sure I'll work it out.Absolutely - although it's not that steep; in my humble opinion you should persevere with Debian. That said, I've heard good things about Mepis (although I haven't used it myself), so I'll be interested to see how you go.

nofam
19-02-2010, 09:56 AM
I ended up doing a apt-get remove gnome gnome-utils gnome-core gnome-desktop-data gnome-desktop-environment which seems to have done the trick, followed by desktop=kde.

Will see how that goes.

fred_fish
19-02-2010, 11:07 AM
I would recommend aptitude instead of apt-get. It's a bit more informative and better at resolving dependencies.
Also, in interactive mode, you get a ncurses interface to look at all the package lists & info & status. Any installations or removals show you exactly what it is going to do first, and you get multiple choice prompts for resolving any issues.

I haven't used Mepis either, but other debian-based distro's have not impressed me as much as the original, but then I prefer things 'working' rather than 'shiny'. :)

Erayd
19-02-2010, 12:04 PM
I would recommend aptitude instead of apt-get. It's a bit more informative and better at resolving dependencies.
Also, in interactive mode, you get a ncurses interface to look at all the package lists & info & status.Aptitude can be a bit risky, as it accepts some things by default that shouldn't be accepted. It's generally pretty good though, and the consequences of its (occasional) decision-making errors are usually trivial. If you care about such things, the ncurses interface is definitely nice.


Any installations or removals show you exactly what it is going to do first, and you get multiple choice prompts for resolving any issues.Apt can do this as well, you just have to ask for it.


...but then I prefer things 'working' rather than 'shiny'. :)
Agreed there! Although when you can get working *and* shiny in the same package, that's just too darn brilliant for words :rolleyes:.


I ended up doing a apt-get remove gnome gnome-utils gnome-core gnome-desktop-data gnome-desktop-environment which seems to have done the trick, followed by desktop=kde.

Will see how that goes.
That won't have got rid of everything - there will still be quite a bit of leftover junk - but it shouldn't bother you, and can safely be left alone.

nofam
19-02-2010, 12:45 PM
That won't have got rid of everything - there will still be quite a bit of leftover junk - but it shouldn't bother you, and can safely be left alone.

Indeed - have blown away the VM and re-installed without Desktop packages. . . and now re-installing KDE :)

All this Linux stuff gets easier when you re-do something over and over. I even figured out why you put a ^ and a $ on your apt-cache search string ;)

Brooko
19-02-2010, 05:05 PM
+1 for Mepis - I helped set-up and package for their community run repo (backports from sid etc).

There are 2 versions out ->
8.0.15 which is KDE3

and 8.4.97 which is beta (but really stable) and is based on Lenny but with KDE4 backported from upstream.

So far, Warren's done a really nice job with it. Best of both worlds IMO - Debian stable + KDE4.

Both come in 32b or 64b live cd's which are installable.

Links to available mirrors here -> https://www.mepis.org/mirrors

fred_fish
19-02-2010, 05:20 PM
+Best of both worlds IMO - Debian stable + KDE4.

Best of one world at least :rolleyes:
I'm yet to be impressed by KDE4.
Mepis has been on my list, for when I get time to go distro-cruising again ...
but TBH I haven't really felt the need since I started running debian :)

Brooko
19-02-2010, 09:18 PM
Yeah - I thought the same with 4.1. But from 4.2 onward, KDE have been making really good progress. I'm currently using 4.3.4 and waiting for 4.4 to hit the repos. I wouldn't go back to 3 now :thumbs:

Erayd
19-02-2010, 11:35 PM
Yeah - I thought the same with 4.1. But from 4.2 onward, KDE have been making really good progress. I'm currently using 4.3.4 and waiting for 4.4 to hit the repos. I wouldn't go back to 3 now :thumbs:I have to say I agree with that - I've been running KDE4 as my main DE ever since 4.2.0 was released. Currently using 4.4.0. There's still the occasional rough edge, but not many.

Distro is Gentoo (~amd64). KDE installed from the main portage tree, using the set definitions from the kde overlay.


...backports from sid etc.That worries me. Sid is the unstable branch of Debian, and half the reason Ubuntu have so many problems is because they fork from that branch every 6 months...

Brooko
20-02-2010, 12:54 AM
That worries me. Sid is the unstable branch of Debian, and half the reason Ubuntu have so many problems is because they fork from that branch every 6 months...

Difference is that all we do is backport the applications which will port using stable (Lenny) base libs. If they don't port, we don't use them. Community tests the ported apps before they go into the actual repository.

End result is debian stable with surprisingly up to date application versions.

The 'buntu releases are a full sid snapshot. Mepis is debian stable with ported applications where workable.

I've never tried gentoo. Was it much of a learning curve?

Erayd
20-02-2010, 10:11 AM
Difference is that all we do is backport the applications which will port using stable (Lenny) base libs. If they don't port, we don't use them. Community tests the ported apps before they go into the actual repository.

End result is debian stable with surprisingly up to date application versions.

The 'buntu releases are a full sid snapshot. Mepis is debian stable with ported applications where workable.That sounds like a *much* more sensible approach than the way Ubuntu goes about things!


I've never tried gentoo. Was it much of a learning curve?I didn't find it that way, but I was already quite knowledgeable about the 'guts' of my OS when I decided to switch. There are a few differences, but nothing particularly staggering.

Bear in mind though that if you aren't familiar with the 'under the hood' bits of your system the learning-curve will be almost vertical - Gentoo doesn't provide much in the way of handholding, you're expected to know what you want and how to achieve it. If you don't know something, the documentation is unbelievably good.