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SurferJoe46
22-01-2010, 02:32 PM
Uh huh! I don't need to comment about this ~~~~~~~~~~~~



FOXNews.com -- Company to Remove Bible References From Combat Rifles

Thursday , January 21, 2010 - AP

WASHINGTON A Michigan defense contractor will voluntarily stop stamping references to Bible verses on combat rifle sights made for the U.S. military, a major buyer of the company's gear.

In a statement released Thursday, Trijicon of Wixom, Mich., says it is also providing to the armed forces free of charge modification kits to remove the Scripture citations from the telescoping sights already in use. Through multimillion dollar contracts, the Marine Corps and Army have more than 300,000 Trijicon sights.

The references to Bible passages raised concerns that the citations break a government rule that bars proselytizing by American troops in Afghanistan and Iraq, which are predominantly Muslim countries.

A spokesman for U.S. Central Command initially said the Trijicon sights didn't violate the ban and compared the citations on the sights to the "In God We Trust" inscription printed on U.S. currency.

On Thursday, however, Army Gen. David Petraeus, Central Command's top officer, called the practice "disturbing."

"This is a serious concern to me and the other commanders in Iraq and Afghanistan," Petraeus told an audience at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington.

New Zealand announced Thursday that they would remove the citations from the sights they have, and Australia, which also uses the sights, is assessing what to do.

New Zealand defense force spokesman Maj. Kristian Dunne said Trijicon would be instructed to remove the inscriptions from further orders of the gun sights for New Zealand and the letters would be removed from gun sights already in use by troops.

The inscriptions are not obvious and appear in raised lettering at the end of the stock number. Trijicon's rifle sights use tritium, a radioactive form of hydrogen, to create light and help shooters hit what they're aiming for.

Markings on the Advanced Combat Optical Gunsight, which is standard issue to U.S. special operations forces, include "JN8:12," a reference to John 8:12: "Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, 'I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life,"' according to the King James version of the Bible.

The Trijicon Reflex sight is stamped with 2COR4:6, a reference to part of the second letter of Paul to the Corinthians: "For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ," the King James version reads.

Photos posted on a Defense Department Web site show Iraqi forces training with rifles equipped with the inscribed sights.

Rev. C. Welton Gaddy, president of the Interfaith Alliance, said in a letter sent Thursday to President Barack Obama that the gun sights "clearly violate" the rule against proselytizing. Gaddy added that "images of American soldiers as Christian crusaders come to mind when they are carrying weaponry bearing such verses."

Mikey Weinstein, president of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, contacted The Associated Press last week about the Scripture citations. He said he had received complaints from active-duty and retired members of the military. Weinstein said he couldn't identify them because they fear retaliation.

The company's practice of putting Bible references on the sites began nearly 30 years ago by Trijicon's founder, Glyn Bindon, who was killed in a plane crash in 2003. His son Stephen, Trijicon's president, has continued the practice.

"Trijicon has proudly served the U.S. military for more than two decades, and our decision to offer to voluntarily remove these references is both prudent and appropriate," Stephen Bindon said in the statement.

The statement does not provide an estimate on the removal costs. A company spokesman did not return a telephone call.

The company is also making the same offer to military in other countries that have purchased Trijicon's rifle sights.

An Army spokesman said Thursday the service was unaware of the coded biblical references until a few days ago.

"It is not the policy of the Army or the Department of Defense to put religious references of any kind on its equipment," Lt. Col. Jimmie Cummings said.

Marine Corps spokeswoman Capt. Geraldine Carey said the service "is making every effort to remove these markings from all of our scopes and will ensure that all future procurement of these scopes will not have these types of markings."

John H
22-01-2010, 03:43 PM
There are significant examples of corporate insanity in your country Joe. This has actually had quite a bit of news airing up here in Godzone.

SurferJoe46
22-01-2010, 04:02 PM
I guess it really depends which side of the gun sight you are seeing.

I mean - if you are the person being trained UPON, how can it make much difference since you can't read it and have short time to whip out your bible and look it up anyway? ?

John H
22-01-2010, 04:10 PM
Here is the current Stuff article about it so you can see where the quotation is located. It is even difficult for the shooter to see.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/3254931/Contractor-to-remove-Bible-references-from-guns

But that isn't the point really - it is all about the impression that America is waging a Holy War, and that the Crusader mentality is still alive and well in the 21st Century - something that Bush and his cronies seemed to be espousing.

The use of the biblical inscriptions simply appears to support what the terrorists have been saying all along - that Jews and Christians have been waging a Holy War on Islam, thus justifying their actions. True or false (and in the case of Cheyney et all, it just may be true), it was a particularly dumb move to play into their hands like that.

roddy_boy
22-01-2010, 04:24 PM
Everyone knows that the probability of the existence of the christian god is the same as the probability of the existence of the pastafarian god (flying spaghetti monster).

SurferJoe46
22-01-2010, 07:06 PM
Here is the current Stuff article about it so you can see where the quotation is located. It is even difficult for the shooter to see.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/3254931/Contractor-to-remove-Bible-references-from-guns

But that isn't the point really - it is all about the impression that America is waging a Holy War, and that the Crusader mentality is still alive and well in the 21st Century - something that Bush and his cronies seemed to be espousing.

The use of the biblical inscriptions simply appears to support what the terrorists have been saying all along - that Jews and Christians have been waging a Holy War on Islam, thus justifying their actions. True or false (and in the case of Cheyney et all, it just may be true), it was a particularly dumb move to play into their hands like that.

I dunnow - that's a powerfully long stretch of logic to draw there, John. I don't think either Bush 1 or 2 had anything to do with any of the various Inquisitions against the Muslims before actually arriving in the Oral Office, which was, if I remember correctly in 1977 and not 1095.

I know it's not the way it in in Upsidedown Land, but everywhere you turn here in the US is a scripture quoted or alluded to on a piece of cardboard or a full-paid billboard on the highways. The newspapers are full of Biblical references and the Maranatha influence and rapturist mentality is very powerful.

You can be blessed, cured of headaches and other malevolencies, perhaps walk on water and feed great crowds with a few fish sticks and a bagel almost on any street or "church" in the US. The fact that there are SO MANY churches is likely a sign that these people (US-ers) are rife with guilt and need absolution or at least some ganja to forget their troubles under the eye of their guru, meditationalist or psychic..

For better or worse, the US has it's own religious credo, but unfortunately it cannot hold a candle to the Abrahamic text or ideals that either the Muslims and/or the so-called "Christians" hold as dear and reverent and sacred. The very same covenential laws they say they honor and obey would all call for their stoning at least as persona-non-gratis - in a spiritual sense.

It's just a case of subliminal euphoria that exists here and if anyone has ever visited, they can attest to the signage and chants that are on street level.

Unfortunately - the very edicts they say they have as a lifestyle also dictates that "Thou shall not kill" in the same book that they are ever so eager to swear on as the reason why they kill and threaten others.

It's - at best - a very mixed message. But a factory that makes gun sights may have any number of reasons WHY they so embossed the reference to the scripture.


1) Sales to neo-christians who are pulling the trigger on Muslims - as a form of confession or a catharsis.
2) The factory thought it would make a great sales point to arms merchants who had a bad conscience
3) It might have been one of those secret moves much like the English in India when they dipped their bullets in pig fat to cause holy grief in Muslims who, so tainted by a non-kosher bullet - could now not go the see Allah.
4) A secret "nose-thumbing" to the Muslims. (NZ= middle finger)

Currently - they big influence is werewolves, vampires and ghoulies and fortune tellers who guarantee that they are licensed (by whom?) and don't make mistakes.

It's become a circus as to what is considered "reverential" now. But the influence is deep-rooted and won't go away for (dare I say?) forever. :illogical

plod
22-01-2010, 07:24 PM
I dunnow - that's a powerfully long stretch of logic to draw there, John. I don't think either Bush 1 or 2 had anything to do with any of the various Inquisitions against the Muslims before actually arriving in the Oral Office, which was, if I remember correctly in 1977 and not 1095.

I know it's not the way it in in Upsidedown Land, but everywhere you turn here in the US is a scripture quoted or alluded to on a piece of cardboard or a full-paid billboard on the highways. The newspapers are full of Biblical references and the Maranatha influence and rapturist mentality is very powerful.

You can be blessed, cured of headaches and other malevolencies, perhaps walk on water and feed great crowds with a few fish sticks and a bagel almost on any street or "church" in the US. The fact that there are SO MANY churches is likely a sign that these people (US-ers) are rife with guilt and need absolution or at least some ganja to forget their troubles under the eye of their guru, meditationalist or psychic..

For better or worse, the US has it's own religious credo, but unfortunately it cannot hold a candle to the Abrahamic text or ideals that either the Muslims and/or the so-called "Christians" hold as dear and reverent and sacred. The very same covenential laws they say they honor and obey would all call for their stoning at least as persona-non-gratis - in a spiritual sense.

It's just a case of subliminal euphoria that exists here and if anyone has ever visited, they can attest to the signage and chants that are on street level.

Unfortunately - the very edicts they say they have as a lifestyle also dictates that "Thou shall not kill" in the same book that they are ever so eager to swear on as the reason why they kill and threaten others.

It's - at best - a very mixed message. But a factory that makes gun sights may have any number of reasons WHY they so embossed the reference to the scripture.

1) Sales to neo-christians who are pulling the trigger on Muslims - as a form of confession or a catharsis.
2) The factory thought it would make a great sales point to arms merchants who had a bad conscience
3) It might have been one of those secret moves much like the English in India when they dipped their bullets in pig fat to cause holy grief in Muslims who, so tainted by a non-kosher bullet - could now not go the see Allah.
4) A secret "nose-thumbing" to the Muslims. (NZ= middle finger)Currently - they big influence is werewolves, vampires and ghoulies and fortune tellers who guarantee that they are licensed (by whom?) and don't make mistakes.

It's become a circus as to what is considered "reverential" now. But the influence is deep-rooted and won't go away for (dare I say?) forever. :illogicalyou forgot the green back

R2x1
22-01-2010, 07:29 PM
Christians seldom give a sniff about the feelings of any not of their own peculiar little brand of fantasy. Just like nearly every other organised religion.

rob_on_guitar
22-01-2010, 07:43 PM
All religion should be wiped from the earth. Then people would have to use real excuses to be hate mongers.

Battleneter2
22-01-2010, 08:28 PM
All religion should be wiped from the earth. Then people would have to use real excuses to be hate mongers.

+1 and maybe the "REAL" reasons for these conflicts would become more obvious.

Makes me laugh, one of the 10 commandments is "thou shall not kill". There are NO exceptions, that's one of gods 10 commandments there are no if or buts, the cornerstone of Christianity. Now we have profiting arms manufacture quoting bible verses, what a joke.

prefect
22-01-2010, 08:32 PM
All religion should be wiped from the earth. Then people would have to use real excuses to be hate mongers.

100% mega agree.
Religious people make me sick.

roddy_boy
23-01-2010, 03:59 AM
Makes me laugh, one of the 10 commandments is "thou shall not kill". There are NO exceptions, that's one of gods 10 commandments there are no if or buts, the cornerstone of Christianity. Now we have profiting arms manufacture quoting bible verses, what a joke.

Then why does the old testament have so many crimes which are punishable by stoning to death? Does that not mean someone has to do the killing?

gary67
23-01-2010, 09:30 AM
Of course not in a trial stoning no one gets killed it is just a practice run encase they ever have to do it for real. And it would be the stones fault not the person throwing them

Zippity
23-01-2010, 10:08 AM
A quote from another forum:

Yeah, we don't want to piss off any Muslims!
Wonder if they know about that 'salt pork-rubbed stock' feature yet?

Billy T
24-01-2010, 10:32 PM
A quote from another forum:

Yeah, we don't want to piss off any Muslims! Wonder if they know about that 'salt pork-rubbed stock' feature yet?

Now there's a way to limit the use of guns and explosives by Muslim terrorists, put it about that they all have porcine-derived content (pretty hard to disprove) and make sure that actually happens for all future production. Same for explosives: once contaminated with pig derived chemicals, who'd want to blow themselves up then front up to the 27 blessed virgins smelling of roast pork? They'd be reduced to using knives and swords, or just shouting BANG very loudly.

Remember that the Indian Mutiny arose out of Sepoy soldiers believing that their paper rifle cartridges were greased with pork fat (regarded as unclean by Muslims) or beef fat (sacrilege to Hindus). To make matters worse, they had to bite the end off with their teeth to empty the powder down the barrel of their muzzle-loaders.

Cheers

Billy 8-{) :rolleyes:

R2x1
24-01-2010, 11:16 PM
Would it be cheaper to put all pigskin seats in aircraft than put a zillion xray machines into departure gates?

prefect
25-01-2010, 07:00 AM
Or you could fix the problem that causes them to want to blow things up

Billy T
25-01-2010, 01:02 PM
Or you could fix the problem that causes them to want to blow things up

I love simple solutions to complex problems, especially the kind of problems that go back centuries into the dim dark depths of time.

C'mon then Prefect, give forth of your wisdom and insight, that we might all work toward world peace and all that stuff. One proviso, I really don't think turbans will take on global-wise, or that the Niquab, Khimar or Hijab will appeal to Kiwi women either.

What is this problem that WE should fix?

Cheers

Billy 8-{) :confused:

prefect
25-01-2010, 01:23 PM
Get the isrelis out of occupied Palestine, Occupied Lebanon (Sheeba farms) Occupied Syria (Golan Heights) stop the siege of Gaza .
Problem solved