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hsvman12
21-01-2010, 06:37 PM
I am planning to gradually upgrading my 3.5 year old PC. It's specs are:

CPU: Intel Pentium D945 3.4 ghz 2x2mb cache 800 mhz fsb lga775
Motherboard: Intel LGA775 DDR400/333
RAM: 2gb
Windows: XP
PSU: 520w
GPU: nvidia GeForce 7600GT 256 SSR3

I am normally a few years behind playing new release games, and I am starting to play games now that my PC cannot handle on high settings (ones released in 2007/08). I currently have a 19 inch LCD, but plan to upgrade this to 22 inch widescreen (at some stage).

I don't know much about performance etc so I am planning to follow PC world's advice (in their latest few mags) and upgrade to:

CPU: Intel Core i5 750 2.66GHz
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-P55-UD3
RAM: G.Skill Ripjaw 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3-1600
Windows: Thinking about 7
GPU: either Radeon hd 4890 OR nVidia GTX 275.

At around $1000, this fits my budget.

I plan to upgrade my GPU first. After reading all the reviews, both cards were close and I had planned to purchase the 275 (on the basis similar pricing). However pc world recommends the 4890 and after checking prices, the 4890 is around $100-$200 cheaper.

Pricespy lists a range of 4890 cards refer: http://pricespy.co.nz/category.php?k=v1293

I would normally just buy the cheapest (for $285), but the PC world recommendation is priced at $319.

My question, which one of these cards is the best for value? Are they all built the same with the same specs or are some better quality/speed/performance?

Any help would be appreciated.

pctek
21-01-2010, 06:58 PM
CPU: Intel Core i5 750 2.66GHz
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-P55-UD3
RAM: G.Skill Ripjaw 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3-1600
Windows: Thinking about 7
GPU: either Radeon hd 4890 OR nVidia GTX 275.


My question, which one of these cards is the best for value? Are they all built the same with the same specs or are some better quality/speed/performance?

.

There is no other choice worth bothering about other than WIndows 7.

Stick to ASUS and Gigabyte for both motherboards and graphics cards. They both have a 3 year warranty. If the shop you are looking at doesn't say that, then run away from them.

They have a 3 yr warranty (versus 1 yr crap) for a reason. Don't believe anyone who says they are all the same, the GPU is, but the rest is not.

See here for a list of dodgy versus reliable shops:

http://www.gpforums.co.nz/thread/297771/?

Battleneter2
21-01-2010, 07:03 PM
The GTX 275 and the 4890 pretty much trade blow for blow. Price wise the 4890 clearly wins so no good reason not to go that way.

You should look up reviews of the HD5770 as another option $270 ish, slightly lower performance but lower power/heat, and DX11 (who really cares but...).



Don't believe anyone who says they are all the same, the GPU is, but the rest is not.


http://www.gpforums.co.nz/thread/297771/?

pctek, you dont seem to realise most Graphics cards are re badged. Foxconn is one company thats has made cards for Asus and Gigabyte its a lot more than JUST the GPU. Most of the cards are the EXACT reference design put out by Nividia and ATI, brand doesnt matter beyond price, warranty and if the card has improved cooling over reference (and maybe factory overclock if you care).

pctek
21-01-2010, 07:33 PM
pctek, you dont seem to realise most Graphics cards are re badged. Foxconn is one company thats has made cards for Asus

The hell they do.
Go look it up.
ASUS make their own stuff.

qazwsxokmijn
21-01-2010, 08:01 PM
Reference design...sure. But many times manufacturers liek Gigabyte and Asus choose to use components of higher quality than reference designs. Sometimes they stray from reference designs a lot (like MSI's 1GHz Lightning 5870).

The GPUs themselves are not made by these vendors though. I believe all GPUs for both nVidia AND ATI are being made by TSMC now.

pablo d
22-01-2010, 10:06 AM
I would normally just buy the cheapest (for $285), but the PC world recommendation is priced at $319.


Hiya, I wrote those recommended build lists for PC World :cool:

Pricing was based on the street price at the time, which invariably drops by the time the mag hits the shelves...

I used to be fussy about GPU brand as well but not so much anymore, so long as the card comes with at least 2 year warranty (in my experience, if it don't fail in the first 2 years then it prob won't fail for a while).

Asus and Gigabyte *are* good, and they do manufacture a lot of their own stuff, but Asus also sell reference/rebadged video cards as well so buying an Asus doesn't gaurantee you an Asus-built product.

Even in saying that, I went thru 3 dead Asus-built Glacier 4870 cards last year, before the shop swapped it with an Asus Matrix (which went flawlessly). They said the Glacier had over 70% failure rate or something like that. Just goes to show that warranty and after-sales support can be more important than brand name.

Battleneter2
22-01-2010, 10:55 AM
The hell they do.
Go look it up.
ASUS make their own stuff.

Sorry you are mistaken, many Reference design cards are made by several manufactures and supplied for re-branding. A lot of this stuff is commercially sensitive and hard to google. Which cards and what quantities are hard to say. This is done to keep the costs down to all the so called manufactures (and or re-branders).

http://hothardware.com/News/Foxconn-to-Show-Branded-Graphics-Cards/

""Flextronics has been a longtime manufacturing partner for NVIDIA and is responsible for producing a significant amount of graphics cards which are then re-branded as one of the more familiar graphics card vendor products.""


I can 100% Guarantee Asus at least buys SOME cards from either Flextronics or Foxconn. For example most Asus 8800GT's were manufactured by one of these two because Nvidia didn't license anyone else to do it.

I am definitely not saying Asus dont make "any", but Reference cards have very specific specifications, it doesn't matter who manufactures them. Hope this clears up your confusion.

Battleneter2
22-01-2010, 11:26 AM
The hell they do.
Go look it up.
ASUS make their own stuff.

Geese I must have far to much time on my hands lol, now where's my victory cigar.
http://ixbtlabs.com/articles2/video/g80-7.html

"""I repeat that all 8800-series products are currently manufactured at third-party plants (Foxconn, Flextronics) ordered by NVIDIA. This company receives these cards and then sells them to its partners. That's why practically all GeForce 8800 cards are identical, because they are manufactured at two plants under strict NVIDIA control. ""

This type of manufacturing and re-branding goes beyond the 8800 series and prior for that matter.

pctek
22-01-2010, 11:42 AM
http://hothardware.com/News/Foxconn-to-Show-Branded-Graphics-Cards/


I can 100% Guarantee Asus at least buys SOME cards from either Flextronics or Foxconn. Hope this clears up your confusion.

That does not say any such thing.

However:
http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Print.aspx?NewsId=9101

http://apcmag.com/gigabyteasus_joint_venture_dumped_is_foxconn_behin d_the_whole_thing.htm

and
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/mainboards/display/20080102124109_Foxconn_Electronics_to_Become_World _s_Largest_Maker_of_Mainboards.html

Battleneter2
22-01-2010, 11:50 AM
That does not say any such thing.

http://ixbtlabs.com/articles2/video/g80-7.html


lol Asus did 8800 series where do you think they got them?

Its ok don't appologise for being wrong, just keep arguing maybe you can murky it up :)

pablo d
22-01-2010, 11:51 AM
ALL initial batches of 5770/5850/5870 cards used reference PCBs from ATI (made by whichever OEM ATI chose at the time). It wasn't until a month or two down the track that cards with non-reference PCBs where released by the likes of Asus and Giga.

Battleneter2
22-01-2010, 11:55 AM
ALL initial batches of 5770/5850/5870 cards used reference PCBs from ATI (made by whichever OEM ATI chose at the time). It wasn't until a month or two down the track that cards with non-reference PCBs where released by the likes of Asus and Giga.

yea agree, Asus and Gigabyte have a history of doing both Reference and there own design as well as selling and buying for re-branding which you said above.

pablo d
22-01-2010, 12:01 PM
It is of course possible that Asus or Giga manufactured some of the reference PCBs in the first place, which is the point that I think pctek is trying to make, however that info isn't made public AFAIK.

Battleneter2
22-01-2010, 12:24 PM
It is of course possible that Asus or Giga manufactured some of the reference PCBs in the first place, which is the point that I think pctek is trying to make, however that info isn't made public AFAIK.

Agree, this is all commercial information, as i said tough to know who makes what, we know about the 8800 series as Nvidia did release that info, Asus and gigabyte as you probably know had early reference cards, its easy to connect the dots...

pctek thinking Asus and gigabyte make "all" there own cards and therefore better quality is misguided, thats really it.

Gobe1
22-01-2010, 01:17 PM
Meanwhile... HSVMAN remember to get a good power supply with that, someone on here will recommend the best brands, im not sure

pctek
22-01-2010, 04:32 PM
pctek thinking Asus and gigabyte make "all" there own cards and therefore better quality is misguided, thats really it.

Right when you have done banging about the a rather old 8800 series. Go read some of your pet reviews istes articles. Like:

Asus “Republic of Gamers” Mars limited edition graphics card.
Asustek estimates that its Mars graphics card that belongs to the Republic of Gamers family of premium products offers 23% higher performance compared to the reference [card].

I will allow you the fact that some are ameneded but certainly not all. Nor does that mean it doesn't matter what you buy.

I noted a wide variation in warranty even for the elderly 8800 series cards when they came out.
Being all the same with different labels on them should mean they all have the same warranty right?

Wrong.

I know which ones I'll stick with and that will remain Gigabyte and ASUS unless they suddenly screwup and go downhill in the future.

hsvman12
22-01-2010, 06:50 PM
Thanks for the information, it's been an interesting read.

I'll definitely go with the 4890, the clear message for me is to get one with at least a 2 year warranty (but preferably a 3 year one).

According to pricespy, Gigabyte have these versions:
Gigabyte Radeon HD4890 Dual-DVI 1GB $285 (http://pricespy.co.nz/category.php?l=v1293)
Gigabyte Radeon HD4890 OC HDMI DisplayPort 1GB $294 (although it's $325 from a company who has it in stock) (http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=461740)
Gigabyte Radeon HD4890 Ultra Durable HDMI DisplayPort 1GB ($306 - but not in stock) (http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=471782)

And Asus have:
Asus Radeon EAH4890/HTDI/1GD5 1GB $336 (although $359 for the one in stock) (http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=421787)
Asus Radeon EAH4890 TOP/HTDI/1GD5 1GB $379 (but none in stock)

They also have the one that PC World recommends made by XFX:
XFX Radeon HD4890 XXX Dual-DVI 1GB $319 ($369 in stock) (http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=421779)
XFX Radeon HD4890 Dual-DVI 1GB $336 (http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=421414)

I don't know what the difference between these. Which one would you recommend? I'm leaning towards the first gigabyte one (subject to it having a 3 year warranty).

Also, will my 520w power supply not handle this? If not, what wattage will I need?

Thanks

pctek
22-01-2010, 08:39 PM
I'm leaning towards the first gigabyte one (subject to it having a 3 year warranty).

Also, will my 520w power supply not handle this? If not, what wattage will I need?



Gigabyte is fine, go for it.
As for the PSU it all depends on what brand it is.
Many cheap PSU makers cheat on wattage, not to mention the quality of components used in them.

hsvman12
23-01-2010, 01:29 PM
All I can track down re my PSU is: 520W ATX V2.0 Power Supply (20+4pin Design), Single 120mm fan, PCI-Express ready. Will this support the 4890?

Does anyone know what this card is like XFX Radeon HD4890 Dual-DVI 1GB (http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?p=421414)?

inphinity
25-01-2010, 08:34 AM
I wouldn't risk using a brand-unknown 520W PSU for any new PC with any higher-end components (like the i5 and 4890).

As for the graphics cards... for Asus, the TOP editions are higher-spec. Ditto XFX and their XXX editions. Both are often, but not always, above standard clockspeed. Gigabyte's OC editions are above standard clockspeed, and their UD editions are higher spec components but not necessarily any higher performing (but often longer lasting, or more tolerant of user overclocking).

Personally I'd get the Asus HD4890 TOP but, I tend to go with Asus first for graphics cards... just always had good experience from them myself, moreso than any other brand.

qazwsxokmijn
25-01-2010, 09:52 AM
Sounds like a Raidmax 520W PSU. I wouldn't really use it personally.

Get this from CL:
http://www.computerlounge.co.nz/components/componentview.asp?partid=8083

I know 750W is overkill, but it's good to future-proof and it's on a massive discount for a 750W unit. Plus PCP&C is a great brand, manufacturing PSUs of high quality just like Corsair.

Battleneter2
25-01-2010, 11:29 AM
Right when you have done banging about the a rather old 8800 series. Go read some of your pet reviews istes articles. Like:

Asus “Republic of Gamers” Mars limited edition graphics card.
Asustek estimates that its Mars graphics card that belongs to the Republic of Gamers family of premium products offers 23% higher performance compared to the reference [card].

I will allow you the fact that some are ameneded but certainly not all. Nor does that mean it doesn't matter what you buy.

I noted a wide variation in warranty even for the elderly 8800 series cards when they came out.
Being all the same with different labels on them should mean they all have the same warranty right?

Wrong.

I know which ones I'll stick with and that will remain Gigabyte and ASUS unless they suddenly screwup and go downhill in the future.

Just keep fuzzing things, or you could just say, "sorry i was wrong I didnt know Asus didnt make all there own cards and there is little diff between the reference models"

I would then say "thats cool don't sweat it"

lol

Gobe1
25-01-2010, 11:49 AM
Sounds like a Raidmax 520W PSU. I wouldn't really use it personally.

Get this from CL:
http://www.computerlounge.co.nz/components/componentview.asp?partid=8083

I know 750W is overkill, but it's good to future-proof and it's on a massive discount for a 750W unit. Plus PCP&C is a great brand, manufacturing PSUs of high quality just like Corsair.

Woo, not a bad price for that;)