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Arteis
06-01-2010, 12:11 AM
We have had a Paradise broadband connection for years at our semi-rural home between Paraparaumu and Waikanae. Up till 22 December, it worked fine with a reasonable speed most of the time.

On 22 December, the service suddenly slowed to an incredibly snail-like speed - ten minutes or more to open a simple page, if it didn't time out first (in other words, many times slower than even dial-up, and basically unusable). DSL speed tests were impossible to do because of the sloooowww speed.

After a series of many calls to Paradise over the last two weeks (gee, I hate that canned saxophone!), they tell me the problem is that our street has an old Complin [sp?] box that has 60 people using 4MB. Paradise (who are part of Telstra) say that the problem is that Telecom have now let too many users on board, and that the service in our street is now over capacity. They say it is Telecom's problem and that they (Paradise/Telstra) cannot force their hand.

IF this is correct, what right have Telecom to add new users and thus overload the box and bump us off .. and, more importantly, what can we do about it? Paradise/Telstra are washing their hands of it as a Telecom problem, and of course we are not Telecom customers so they are not particulary interested either.

My other question is ... my neighbours on both sides and also across the road are still getting perfectly good broadband service through their ISPs including both Paradise and Xtra. If Paradise are correct that our loss of broadband is a capacity issue, should our neighbours not also be seeing drops?

hueybot3000
06-01-2010, 02:11 AM
Do you pay for a speed? ie 4mb connection? if you do and your not getting it then they gotta do something about it because thats part of the contract.

And telecom like to push there way in and ruin things so wouldnt suprise me if they have

somebody
06-01-2010, 05:43 AM
It's Telecom's (well - Chorus') box so they can do whatever they like with it - Paradise/Telstra simply buy wholesale capacity off Telecom and supply it to you.

You might want to see if you can get your case with Paradise escalated, and discuss the fact that your neighbours are getting decent speeds with them. Also check when (and if) you're getting a new cabinet in your area (http://www.telecomwholesale.co.nz/maps)

Chilling_Silence
06-01-2010, 06:40 AM
And telecom like to push there way in and ruin things so wouldnt suprise me if they have

That's an interesting way of looking at it. Or, you could look at it from the flip side that new customers want ADSL, and they have the ability to provide it, so they are.

4m/bit connection to the exchange I find a little hard to believe, but we'll give them the benefit of the doubt anyways..

It's also interesting that it happened almost immediately, usually adding 1 extra customer isn't going to make *that* much of a difference, though I could be wrong again.

I tell you what, let's try a few things:
http://winmtr.sourceforge.net/
Download WinMTR_bin.zip
Run WinMTR and do 100 iterations to trademe.co.nz, nzherald.co.nz and telecom.co.nz
Post back with the results here

Also, if you can do a pingtest on pingtest.net, that'd be great.

Lastly, if you know how to get into your ADSL modem and find what speeds you're Sync'ing at, that'd be great :)

Welcome to the Forums

Cheers


Chill.

Chilling_Silence
06-01-2010, 06:42 AM
My other question is ... my neighbours on both sides and also across the road are still getting perfectly good broadband service through their ISPs including both Paradise and Xtra. If Paradise are correct that our loss of broadband is a capacity issue, should our neighbours not also be seeing drops?

Sorry, I completely missed this part.
Yes, you're right, basically if it's turned to custard for one of you, it'll be happening with all of you on that exchange. That's *if* the problem is an overloaded exchange.

What make / model router are you using ?

pctek
06-01-2010, 07:31 AM
My other question is ... my neighbours on both sides and also across the road are still getting perfectly good broadband service through their ISPs including both Paradise and Xtra. If Paradise are correct that our loss of broadband is a capacity issue, should our neighbours not also be seeing drops?

Yes.

Sure yours isn't just an over data issue? Whether you have gone over or not?
Do a speed test.

nmercer
06-01-2010, 07:33 AM
We have had a Paradise broadband connection for years at our semi-rural home between Paraparaumu and Waikanae. Up till 22 December, it worked fine with a reasonable speed most of the time.

On 22 December, the service suddenly slowed to an incredibly snail-like speed - ten minutes or more to open a simple page, if it didn't time out first (in other words, many times slower than even dial-up, and basically unusable). DSL speed tests were impossible to do because of the sloooowww speed.

After a series of many calls to Paradise over the last two weeks (gee, I hate that canned saxophone!), they tell me the problem is that our street has an old Complin [sp?] box that has 60 people using 4MB. Paradise (who are part of Telstra) say that the problem is that Telecom have now let too many users on board, and that the service in our street is now over capacity. They say it is Telecom's problem and that they (Paradise/Telstra) cannot force their hand.

IF this is correct, what right have Telecom to add new users and thus overload the box and bump us off .. and, more importantly, what can we do about it? Paradise/Telstra are washing their hands of it as a Telecom problem, and of course we are not Telecom customers so they are not particulary interested either.

My other question is ... my neighbours on both sides and also across the road are still getting perfectly good broadband service through their ISPs including both Paradise and Xtra. If Paradise are correct that our loss of broadband is a capacity issue, should our neighbours not also be seeing drops?

call TC back and escalate until someone will help you

Clearly you shouldn't be paying for something you are not getting, threaten to withhold payment or cancel your account

Arteis
06-01-2010, 08:12 AM
I can't do a speedtest ... the download of the speedtest page I was given (www.nzdsl.co.nz) takes so long it times out. I've also tried Speedtest.net and only managed to get the top banner after five minutes.

I have escalated this to one of the Paradise managers, who says the same thing about over-capacity. I did say to him that I will have to change ISP (and phone) provider if they can't/won't fix this, and he said that might be the only answer. I rang both Xtra and Orcon, but they said they could not guarantee the same problem, as it would be using the same line/box. So I'm now still pursuing Paradise to fix the issue - I'm going to ring that manager again in a minute (oh no, that saxophone!) and demand a technician comes out.

I will download at a friend's place that programme you mentioned, Chilling Silence, and I'll give that a go and report back later today.

wainuitech
06-01-2010, 08:48 AM
Out of interest, do you have the Telstra Cable anywhere near your home ?

Arteis
06-01-2010, 09:22 AM
Huh, that's odd ... at exactly 0930, the log-jam cleared and my internet started racing away again. It was very sudden, as I was trying to access sites at the time, and up till that time had been having the usual totally slow response ... then suddenly at half-past my attempt to look at Stuff actually came through.

I've just returned to nzdsl.co.nz and now got results of 221 download and 97 upload.

Not sure what has happened. Yesterday Paradise did say they would try throttling me down from my PDQ plan to a slower DSL connection ... maybe that is what has kicked in? I'm not a technical person at all (as you can probably tell) so this is all a mystery to me - but so long as my broadband stays running as it is now, that'll suit me.

I still have to get back to Paradise for a refund of at least two weeks' internet, plus their cheeky notification by automatic email yesterday that changing my plan to the lower speed one (because THEY could no no longer provide my PDQ servive) had a $50 service cost!

Oh, and no cable here, Wainuitech, nor satelite Woosh coverage either ... I looked into those too!

Arteis
06-01-2010, 09:38 AM
Pingtest.net:

Test 1:
Unable to test packet loss.
134ms
81ms jitter
D*

Test 2 (one minute later)
Unable to test packet loss.
107ms
40ms jitter
C*
http://www.pingtest.net/result/7103682.png (http://www.pingtest.net)

Arteis
06-01-2010, 09:43 AM
My D-Link router:

Item.........................Downstream Upstream Unit
SNR Margin...............15 31 dB
Line Attenuation.........20 11 dB
Data Rate..................7616 160 kbps

Arteis
06-01-2010, 09:56 AM
I've downloaded and done the WinMTR tests, now that the internet is running better. Maybe someone can advise me if these tests (and the tests in my two posts above) are now OK - I'm not sure what I need to be looking for!

Here is the WinMTR test to Telecom:
|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| WinMTR statistics |
| Host - % | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
| mygateway1.ar7 - 0 | 101 | 101 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| lo0.internet.ivpn.pe25.telstraclear.net - 3 | 101 | 98 | 63 | 78 | 94 | 78 |
| ge-2-0-0-906.ie2.telstraclear.net - 7 | 101 | 94 | 78 | 82 | 109 | 94 |
| ggis-gige-v906.telstraclear.net - 8 | 100 | 92 | 78 | 82 | 110 | 78 |
| g0-1-0-4.akcr8.global-gateway.net.nz - 7 | 100 | 93 | 78 | 96 | 219 | 94 |
|telecom-sdn-ak1-dom.akcr8.global-gateway.net.nz - 3 | 100 | 97 | 78 | 85 | 94 | 78 |
| 146.171.18.210 - 0 | 100 | 100 | 78 | 86 | 94 | 94 |
| www.telecom.co.nz - 4 | 100 | 96 | 78 | 85 | 94 | 93 |
|________________________________________________| ______|______|______|______|______|______|
WinMTR - 0.8. Copyleft @2000-2002 Vasile Laurentiu Stanimir ( stanimir@cr.nivis.com )


And here is the WinMTR test to TradeMe:
|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| WinMTR statistics |
| Host - % | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
| mygateway1.ar7 - 0 | 101 | 101 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| 218.101.61.124 - 8 | 101 | 93 | 62 | 78 | 109 | 78 |
| ae1-947.internet.ie3.telstraclear.net - 2 | 101 | 99 | 63 | 78 | 125 | 78 |
| ge9-0-947.clix.u22.telstraclear.net - 2 | 100 | 98 | 78 | 82 | 187 | 78 |
| 203.167.225.19 - 3 | 100 | 97 | 62 | 78 | 79 | 79 |
| www.trademe.co.nz - 4 | 100 | 96 | 62 | 77 | 78 | 78 |
|________________________________________________| ______|______|______|______|______|______|
WinMTR - 0.8. Copyleft @2000-2002 Vasile Laurentiu Stanimir ( stanimir@cr.nivis.com )


Finally, here is the WinMTR test to the Herald:
|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| WinMTR statistics |
| Host - % | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
| mygateway1.ar7 - 0 | 101 | 101 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| lo0.internet.ivpn.pe25.telstraclear.net - 5 | 101 | 96 | 78 | 78 | 94 | 78 |
| ge - 3 | 101 | 98 | 78 | 95 | 188 | 94 |
| ggis - 3 | 101 | 98 | 78 | 93 | 125 | 93 |
| g0 - 1 | 101 | 100 | 78 | 99 | 235 | 93 |
| ae2-10.tkcr4.global-gateway.net.nz - 4 | 101 | 97 | 78 | 93 | 94 | 94 |
| orcon-dom.tkcr4.global-gateway.net.nz - 3 | 101 | 98 | 78 | 93 | 109 | 94 |
| 121.98.9.146 - 4 | 101 | 97 | 93 | 94 | 125 | 94 |
| 121.98.9.142 - 5 | 100 | 95 | 78 | 94 | 125 | 93 |
| 121.98.9.141 - 4 | 100 | 96 | 78 | 93 | 125 | 93 |
| 60.234.20.46 - 3 | 100 | 97 | 78 | 93 | 109 | 94 |
| No response from host - 100 | 100 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| www.nzherald.co.nz - 3 | 100 | 97 | 93 | 93 | 94 | 94 |
|________________________________________________| ______|______|______|______|______|______|
WinMTR - 0.8. Copyleft @2000-2002 Vasile Laurentiu Stanimir ( stanimir@cr.nivis.com )

Sweep
06-01-2010, 10:00 AM
I think I prefer my connection to yours.

http://www.pingtest.net/result/7105627.png (http://www.pingtest.net)

Keep listening to saxophones.

Battleneter2
06-01-2010, 12:12 PM
Yes.

Sure yours isn't just an over data issue? Whether you have gone over or not?
Do a speed test.

Telstra don't do throttling or packet shaping for that matter.

Chilling_Silence
06-01-2010, 04:49 PM
I've just returned to nzdsl.co.nz and now got results of 221 download and 97 upload.

Looks like you're on the slowest plan limited-download-speed plan anyway.

You could get a full-speed plan, as you're sync'ing at 7m/bits on ADSL1, so your downloads should rocket down.
That, or see if other ISP's such as Orcon or Telecom offer ADSL2+ in your area.

Arteis
07-01-2010, 06:01 PM
Paradise have "solved" the issue by changing my plan from their PDQ service down to the lower speed one.

After doing this, yesterday our internet began working again, as I mentioned above ... but at a much reduced rate from what we had had before. I still have diificulty with downloads (such as a 5MB file I wanted yestersday, but which stopped completely after only 894kb).

I have asked Paradise to furnish me with a written report of what has happened and the action they have taken. As I am not very technical, I don't trust my own understanding of what they have done, so the written report should be an accurate account. Once I have that report, I'll see what my options are with other providers (though the word I've had so far is that other providers use the same box here anyway).

Friends have suggested I also look at satelite ... but being on the Kapiti Coast, I'm not sure that is available here. Now that I have my (very reduced) internet again, at least I can do some research!

One stipulation will have to be that there is absolutely no tinny saxophones on their support line!!!

Chilling_Silence
07-01-2010, 09:52 PM
Not a fan of Satellite, but feel free to post the "report" here if you want and some of the regulars or myself would be happy to throw in our 2c worth :)

What speeds do you get now on speedtest.net?

Arteis
08-01-2010, 07:51 AM
247 down, 90 up, this morning on nzdsl.co.nz.

I did some research on Farmside satelite, but prorobaly not for us.

I'm starting to think I might have to get used to my new slower internet, and just mourn the good fast service I had for several years. :crying

Anyway, I will indeed post the report from Paradise when I get it (hopefully next week some time).

Arteis
14-01-2010, 08:38 PM
Lost our already throttled-down service again yesterday to the point that it took half an hour to download just the top bar of the Paradise website! Basically any kind of broadband is now so slow it is useless.

Got in touch with Paradise and they say they are still writing me my report, but so far as this issue is concerned, their hands are tied and there is nothing they can do about my broadband internet of five or more years being suddenly degraded to unusable.

I am still mystified, as my neighbours on three sides seem to be having no trouble at all ... I'm now organising a survey of all the residents in my street, as i would've thought some of them would surely have suffered similar symptoms.

Chilling_Silence
15-01-2010, 05:35 AM
I'll call in the big guns.

In the mean time, what do you get when you throw in your address here:
http://telecomwholesale.co.nz/maps

Arteis
15-01-2010, 12:37 PM
Here is the written report from Paradise (TelstraClear):

From the look of your phone line you have excellent rates, and obtainable speeds down the line. However you are connected to a Conklin cabinet, which is older equipment and struggles to handle the speeds of today's connections.

This means that some customers at that exchange may be noticing data loss. If everyone is on a full speed plan then the equipment has to handle large volumes of requests for data, due to it being unable to keep up, data dropped or lost in transfer.

While your modem may be requesting data at 10 bits per second for example, the equipment at the exchange is only capable of delivering 5 bits per second of correct information, the other 5 bits coming as noise etc. The missing information would appear as a slow connection on your end.

With this case I noticed rates of less than 3-400kbps for quite a few customers on that exchange. Therefore as I discussed with you, we have moved you to a slower speed plan. (256kbps/128kbps) What this means is that the equipment at the exchange now has less work to perform and will generally allow it to function at a level where the data loss is much less.

From a 256kbps connection you should be more likely to receive speeds closer to these rates. As you mentioned your speed tests showed that the line was giving 221kbps downlaod, 97kbps upload. This is more accurate to your plan, and shows the data loss has reduced.

I have spoken to our wholesaler since, and they advised they have also had to make similar changes to a few other customers on this piece of equipment, which means while their connections may be slower, they should be more consistent and perform closer to their rate shapes.

The planned upgrade to ADSL2+ is scheduled by our wholesaler to take place around June 2011, as part of a nationwide upgrade, put in place by the NZ government. Until this time, the best Telstra Clear can offer you is the Launch plan you have been put on.

Again, the benefits of being on this slower broadband plan over say dial-up, is that you can use the internet while you use your phone, and that 256kbps is close to four and a half times the speed of dial-up.

*****

Note from me: Unfortunately, since the above letter was written, our newLaunch plan's speed has again dropped to ten minutes or more to open just the top bar of the Paradise page (ie many, many times slower than dial-up), so the above solution is already broken!

Arteis
15-01-2010, 02:06 PM
A nearby resident tells me that on the 23rd (the day my problem first appeared) he went past the box at the corner and saw a technician there, and from then onwards his service was non existent (like mine). He rang the Telecom help desk and had to undergo many major checking steps-- trying to do a speed test to prove the issue-- impossible really when he (like me) could not even access the site to perform the test.

After several days, it was finally decided that there was a fault with the equipment within the exchange box itself, so a technician was allocated, on the
29th Dec to fix. He swapped out parts but it did not resolve his issue-- the tech
went back to the exchange box and then contacted the Help desk to find out what
other recent work had been undertaken on the box. He was advised about the
technician being there on the 23rd and checked the work that he had performed.

He discovered that the technician on the 23rd had performed his tasks
incorrectly and had impacted on my friend's line arrangements, so was then able to
correct.

I have contacted Telstra with this new info, so they are FINALLY arranging for a technician to come out, and see if the faulty work on the 23rd was responsible for my problems too.
In the meantime, the Launch plan they put me on last week is just as ineffective as my original problem, with no abiltiy to use broadband at all.

Finally, Chilling Silence, I tried the Telecom Wholesale search on my my dial-up connection, but it wouldn't give an answer at all. Hey, thanks for your ongoing interest in this query, though ... I really appreciate it (and am intrigued by what you mean about 'the big guns'!!).

paulw
15-01-2010, 05:50 PM
I've just returned to nzdsl.co.nz and now got results of 221 download and 97 upload.

I would hardly say that's fast ..

Arteis
15-01-2010, 08:13 PM
Unfortunately, Paul, even that is much faster than I'm now getting!!! My internet is now so slow I can't even open the www.nzdsl.co.nz site to check the speed in the first place!!!

Arteis
16-01-2010, 04:16 PM
After my survey of street residents, we've decided to band together to demand better service in our street. It appears several others have had problems in the past. Basically, it appears that whenever a repair is made at the cabinet, someone else gets knocked out!

Some of the comments from residents include:

"There have been a few problems with one of the hubs in the box at end
of the road, before Xmas. We had 2 - 3 periods of no broadband, once for
3 days in Dec, and prior for couple days few weeks before that. There are 4
people in this area hung off the same hub, and although I don't know who
they are, they had no broadband at the same time. Telecom cannot seem to
co-ordinate their different contractors, as at one stage there were 2
different outfits doing things at the same time, probably getting in each
other way! If you have to go through the fault finding rigmarole with
Indonesia (or wherever the call centre is at the time), just sit and watch
TV, and pretend to do what they are asking, works for me. It is nearly
always the hub at fault. I was told they were going to upgrade, and at least
for our connection, I think they have. Once the equipment was replaced, the connection was fast, 200 - 300 MB/s for a time."

***

"When ADSL was first installed through to our Cabinet and users took it up we
suffered from what Telecom call "Backhaul". In other words more demand than
bandwidth and an infrastructure back to the exchange that means they
effectively have to ration what users get as too many users are on the link.
My understanding is this was resolved last year with new fibre to our
cabinet and given I am now seeing Max ADSL speeds on my Modem/Router, if
there is any bottleneck, it is now at the street cabinet and/or the old
DSLAMS that it connects to at the exchange. The tech I last spoke to said
that once the exchange and cabinet equipment are upgraded to the new ADSL2+
gear, the connection to me at least should be close to the maximum for
ADSL2+ as the copper and distance from the cabinet to my place are good.

"I still think your problem Roly is with the Card/Connections they have you
on at the cabinet at its no coincidence your troubles started the same date
as T's. As P said earlier, those of us who went onto ADSL Broadband
in our area as soon as we could lever Telecom into providing it, have all
experienced problems that happen when a Tech has done work in the cabinet,
usually connecting up someone else. In your case it seems you get a
connection of sorts but at very very slow rates. That's a fault the Techs
need to fix because if you have close neighbors on reasonable speed yours
should be similar as the equipment and distance the copper runs is the same.

"It not surprising some have had lengthy periods with acceptable speed and
not service disruption, but it is a lottery. I have had in excess of a year
going well then a string of problems which all related to the cabinet. My
closest neighbors have had similar experiences."

****

"The last series of issues I experienced was around Nov/Dec 2009 and involved 3 separate tech visits to the cabinet to replace failing cards & loose wiring connections. All a result of poor tech staff work. So I cringe when ever I see a van at the cabinet. It is a Conklin Cabinet and therefore aging but there is no reason you can't get much better than 256k like most of us are. I suspect Paradise are relating to ADSL2+ speeds which from memory theoretically reach up to 24mbits vs ADSL (our version) at about 7.6mbits

"Regardless of whether you are on Slingshot, Telecom or Paradise the ADSL
service here is on Telecom Wholesale infrastructure (and I'm pretty sure
that includes the Paraparaumu exchange equipment) and we are all close
enough to the street cabinet to achieve reasonable ADSL speeds maxing at
around 7.6 mbits downstream and 640 kbits upstream. Even half that is way
better than the Paradise plan you've been switched onto.

"I believe from chatting with Chorus techs that the feed to our cabinet is
fibre and delivers good bandwith to the cabinet but as Paradise say the
cards in the cabinet are old and only ADSL 1 so heavy demand periods will
slow us all down but it should still be better than dial up. I also suspect
they replace failures etc with old cards from upgraded cabinets so it can be
a pig in a poke with some circuits bad on one card and good on the next.
Hence fixing someone can stuff me or someone else.

"In your shoes I'd be telling Paradise that unless they can confirm a tech has checked there are no issues with you connection running from the Street Cabinet you will be switching to another ISP."

adslgeek
18-01-2010, 02:25 PM
Hey there,

This certainly sounds a little unusual - can you confirm that it was previously on a non Conklin unit, and then was changed to the Conklin?

I have PMed you with some questions that will help me comment on what is actually happening.

Cheers,
ADSLgeek

Arteis
23-01-2010, 04:01 PM
Telecom technicians finally came today.

They spent an hour or so at the cabinet. They told me that they found I was on a faulty port, which they have now replaced. And my internet seems to be working fine now ... fiongers crossed!

Now, if only they had come out a month ago when I first reported the problem!!!!

berryb
24-01-2010, 11:28 AM
Had client with the same issue with Telstra. I was on site many times, changed modems, did ping and speed tests that were near impossible due to poor speed. I suggested to Telstra I had experienced this issue many times before and in those occasions the port was faulty. After 2 months and Telstra giving the same response as you had (over capacity) and refusing to send a technician client refused to pay $$ and moved to Scorch broadband.