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John H
19-12-2009, 01:55 PM
Or should that be "For buffers of old motorcycles"? Or "For old buffers of old motorcycles"? Whatever, there seems to be quite a few of them around here, and you may be interested in a new book in our local library.

It is called "The Vincent in the Barn - Great Stories of Motorcycle Archaeology" by Tom Cotter. The book features stories of the finding and rehabilitation of old motorcycles, and Vincents feature quite a lot, as do HD's and Indians. There is a story about the finding of TE Lawrence's Brough Superior, and another one about a guy who found a 1928 Triumph model W in Australia in 1998 - 70 years old and it had never been ridden. It was a raffle prize that had never been claimed. The original leather tool bag and tool set was attached to the bike - the tool set was complete, and the tools were unused.

Good reading for those who are interested, and packed with photos. Quite a nostalgia trip, but dangerous for those who worry about their immortal soul and breaking the 10 Commandments - especially the commandments about lust and envy. :drool

Billy T
19-12-2009, 02:36 PM
Or should that be "For buffers of old motorcycles"? Or "For old buffers of old motorcycles"? Whatever, there seems to be quite a few of them around here, and you may be interested in a new book in our local library.

"Old motorcycle buffs" actually, generally speaking a buffer is something that softens a physical impact.

Love to read it, I'll go looking.

Cheers

Billy 8-{)

Terry Porritt
19-12-2009, 02:38 PM
Looks great....
http://www.amazon.com/Vincent-Barn-Stories-Motorcycle-Archaeology/dp/0760335354/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1261186529&sr=1-1#reader_0760335354

John H
19-12-2009, 03:00 PM
Ooer, I haven't been to Amazon for a while - I haven't seen that synopsis pop up thingie before. It gives you quite a decent sample of the book eh? Thanks.

John H
19-12-2009, 03:01 PM
"Old motorcycle buffs" actually, generally speaking a buffer is something that softens a physical impact.

Love to read it, I'll go looking.

Cheers

Billy 8-{)

I was thinking more in terms of "silly old buffer", but having said that, I don't know where the expression comes from. I put myself in that category of course.

tut
19-12-2009, 03:39 PM
I thin you mean 'duffer'

John H
19-12-2009, 04:53 PM
I thin you mean 'duffer'

Definition
buffer noun (MAN)
/ˈbʌf.ər /US pronunciation symbol/-ɚ/ n
[C] UK old-fashioned a silly old man
Silly old buffer!

(Definition of buffer noun (MAN) from the Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary)

buffer
noun
a man, especially an old man, who you think is slightly stupid but not unpleasant

(from Macmillan Dictionary Thesaurus)

SurferJoe46
19-12-2009, 04:53 PM
This part caught my attention:


There is a story about the finding of TE Lawrence's Brough Superior, and another one about a guy who found a 1928 Triumph model W in Australia in 1998 - 70 years old and it had never been ridden. It was a raffle prize that had never been claimed. The original leather tool bag and tool set was attached to the bike - the tool set was complete, and the tools were unused.

Somehow I can't picture any Triumph getting off the showroom floor without needing a "spanner" to adjust something, re-attach something or beating on the Amals to keep them from flooding.

gary67
19-12-2009, 04:56 PM
This part caught my attention:



Somehow I can't picture any Triumph getting off the showroom floor without needing a "spanner" to adjust something, re-attach something or beating on the Amals to keep them from flooding.

Jealous cause your country never made anything worth collecting Joe? :lol::lol:

John H
19-12-2009, 04:57 PM
This part caught my attention:



Somehow I can't picture any Triumph getting off the showroom floor without needing a "spanner" to adjust something, re-attach something or beating on the Amals to keep them from flooding.

The point of the story is that it never got off the showroom floor. The bike itself had never been used, let alone the tools.

John H
19-12-2009, 04:59 PM
Jealous cause your country never made anything worth collecting Joe? :lol::lol:

There are many stories in the book about Harleys and Indians. To fans of these marques, they are eminently worth collecting.

R2x1
19-12-2009, 05:11 PM
To collect English motorcycle parts, hang a magnet at the back.
To collect oil, look down.
To get a lighting system, join the queue. (The search has been long, and so far fruitless).

Their reliability is legendary. (Legend : A story / fable based on wishful thinking with no evidence to support the proposal.)

Terry Porritt
19-12-2009, 05:14 PM
The bike on the book cover is a circa 1948 Series B Rapide with HRD on the crankcase, and has the rigid Brampton forks. Some strange mod appears to have been made to the seat by adding stays, but it is not clear what has been done or for what purpose.

Joe has some funny ideas at times. The only times I ever flooded Amal carbs was deliberately when starting the Vincent....press the tickler until the carbs flooded, saved using the choke, even under icy conditions the chokes were never used.

An older colleague of mine at Lucas Gas Turbine/Group Research had a 1938 or 39 maroon coloured Tiger 100 (think it was maroon), that he had had from new. He, and his wife Eddie on pillion, used to enter the ACU trials every year, at least until he retired.
I often wonder what happened to his bike, they both died around the same time.

Terry Porritt
19-12-2009, 05:41 PM
Er, taking leave of my senses, that's a Series B Black Shadow on the cover, (else a very dirty black Rapide :) ) and I should have said HRD on the timing cover, though there would also be HRD on the crankcase on the other side.

tut
19-12-2009, 05:45 PM
Duffer="an incompetent or clumsy person".

I stand corrected, buffer is more apt

John H
19-12-2009, 05:54 PM
Er, taking leave of my senses, that's a Series B Black Shadow on the cover, (else a very dirty black Rapide :) ) and I should have said HRD on the timing cover, though there would also be HRD on the crankcase on the other side.

Quote: On the cover, main image: Rick Schunk's 1948 Series B Vincent Black Shadow emerges from a Minnesota barn in an artful interpretation of every motorcycle collector's dream. Rick Schunk.

Wait till you see the before and after pictures of a Vincent Rapide that was found in a barn and restored. It had been buried under junk in a barn from 1960 to 1982...

Oh, and the pix of the naked young woman doing an aerodynamic pose on a Vincent. I didn't notice which model...

SurferJoe46
19-12-2009, 07:28 PM
I owned or rode a few Limers - a BSA 440 Victor, Triumph Trident, a Vincent Rapide, 1939 Royal Enfield, and along with other notables, I rode one of my English teacher's 1939 Ariel Square Four. I Googled a few pix of them below.

The 440 Victor was the one I remember most fondly.

The English, besides the obvious electrics design flaws had a propensity to leak oil and gasoline all over the place, especially when on a kick stand and the fuel shut off hadn't been closed.

They were fun but I'm glad they "don't make them like that any more!"

I don't particularly like Harleys, but at one time I was a proud owner of a real cop bike - er, TRIKE really.

It was a 45 K-model tricycle that the cops used for meter maid services in San Francisco.

A real collector's edition complete with the rear box, the tire marking stick and the dashboard desk for holding the parking citations in ready position.

It had 4 individual camshafts and intermediate gears with about a dozen timing marks and it took me all of a three month period to time the thing. I still have the barked shin scars to prove it too.

The naked engine image number one is the latter version of the 45-KH engine that had side valves, but the trike was a full-blown flathead like the second image of the cop trike.

That second image is from the fotofiles of the Lodi, New Jersey Police Department.

Number three is from the Owosso, Michigan PD., circa 1950.

Number four is the Ariel Square Four like one of my teachers had.

My bike days are over as these bones don't or won't heal like when I was eighteen with a bullet, so I gave them all up and just look at the pictures.

When reliability and blistering speed was needed or wanted, I rode Kawasakis, Yamahas and an occasional Honda.

I had a Suzuki X-6 Hustler for a few weeks too: a nasty bike that would toss you off for the meanness of it.

The best Ricer was my Kawasaki KZ-650 (http://bluecatmotors.com/wp-content/uploads/wpsc/product_images/thumbnails/1979%20Kawaski%20KZ650%20Orange%20003.jpg).

Terry Porritt
19-12-2009, 07:32 PM
I've just ordered that book through Amazon at a significantly lower price delivered, than NZ online bookshops sell it for.
The price of imported books and magazines in NZ has always been a rip off IMHO.

hueybot3000
19-12-2009, 07:45 PM
I think im by far the youngest poster in this thread :p

John H
19-12-2009, 07:46 PM
@ Terry - True.

John H
19-12-2009, 07:47 PM
I don't think that is an Ariel Square Four SJ. Not like any I have seen anyway. Not sure what you have photographed.

Oops, my apologies SJ. I didn't know they had been around that long - I was remembering a bike that a friend had in my university days, which was like this: http://motorbike-search-engine.co.uk/classic_bikes/1958-ariel-square-4.jpg

Note the four pipes.

Here is a 1951 model for sale:
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Classic-vintage/auction-259098642.htm

Trade Me had a later model for sale a wee while ago, more like the model in the photo I have given the url for (above).

Terry Porritt
19-12-2009, 07:55 PM
I bought an Ariel Square Four sometime in the 1960s, maybe around 1964, for the 4 seater Carmobile sidecar it had attached to it :)

I can't remember the actual model or year, but it had plunger rear suspension, was pig heavy, no oil filter, just a perforated mesh to strain out nuts and bolts, brakes that didn't, a weirdly bolted together primary chain case split vertically and horizontally, designed to lose any oil put in there, a Solex carburettor.

It took forever and a day to warm up before the choke could be opened and power output was feeble.

I could never see why such a fuss was made over such a crap bike

I rode it for a time whilst I was grit blasting all the Shadow frame parts and re-stove enamelling grey. So the bike became a "Grey Shadow".

BSAs I had were D1 Bantam, 250cc C11G (I liked that bike, handled ok in a genteel fashion, reliable, and was oil tight), B33 350cc fairly useless and heavy.

The Velocette 350cc OHC KSS/KTT conversion I used to borrow at weekends was a dream bike.

Edit: My Square Four was just like the 1951 Square Four on Trademe that John's just posted up.

BobM
19-12-2009, 10:20 PM
That Ariel of SJ's is an early 1930's 500cc square four. Used to over heat badly on the rear cylinders. ;)

prefect
19-12-2009, 11:56 PM
I had 2 pommy bikes Ariel 500 single and 750 Norton Commando.
The commando was a fantastic cornering bike, nice sound with baffles removed from whistling pipes but like most pommy **** it was unreliable.
My school mate had a Suzuki 125 Wolf which would keep up with the single banger.

Trev
20-12-2009, 08:15 AM
http://catalogue.napier.govt.nz/spydus2.html
My 1968 Suzuki 250 Hustler would keep up with the pommie 650cc bikes of the day.
:)

PaulD
20-12-2009, 09:34 AM
http://catalogue.napier.govt.nz/spydus2.html
My 1968 Suzuki 250 Hustler would keep up with the pommie 650cc bikes of the day.
:)

Until it seized. I remember at Gracefield Steve Dundon (now of Wellington Motorcycles, Harley dealers to the Undiscerning fame) had the pistons out of his after every race cleaning them up.

John H
20-12-2009, 09:59 AM
(snip)a weirdly bolted together primary chain case split vertically and horizontally, designed to lose any oil put in there(snip)
I learned to ride on a mate's Ariel 500 single, and learned the lovely smell of hot oil from all the leaks... My first bike was a BSA A7, and I organised some custom made oil leaks from the primary chain case - when I put the chain case back together again, I failed to wire up the slipper tensioner bolt to stop it coming loose. At some speed on a country road, the primary case exploded when the slipper tensioner bolt fell out, and was dragged around the case by the chain, thus creating a certain amount of ventilation. It never held oil after that...


I could never see why such a fuss was made over such a crap bike
My understanding was that two of the cylinders didn't get enough cooling and they tended to seize.

I had an Army Indian for a while (ex Army Surplus, on loan from a cousin). Had a heap of fun on that bike - great on shingle roads and farm paddocks. My last Brit bike was a Matchless G9. Sadly I had to sell it to buy a fridge when my first child was born. Later on it was all Jap bikes. At least they didn't spread oil all over the living room carpet.

Terry Porritt
20-12-2009, 10:32 AM
My understanding was that two of the cylinders didn't get enough cooling and they tended to seize.

I think that was so, but that was the least of the problems....

"The 1949 machine weighed around 435lb dry, produced 35bhp at 5500rpm and matched oil-damped tele forks to the Anstey link rear end. "

http://www.realclassic.co.uk/squarefour06010500.html

That sums it up, whereas a bog standard Vincent Rapide of the same year had swinging arm suspension, twin front brakes with real stopping power, another 10 bhp and another 20mph or more at the top end, and Rollie Free was breaking the American record at just over 150mph on a Lightning.

PaulD
20-12-2009, 11:04 AM
I think that was so, but that was the least of the problems....

Stop poking fun at mobility scooters, there's plenty of other V twins to pick on :D

Metla
20-12-2009, 11:09 AM
Welcome to 2010.

Sam I Am
20-12-2009, 11:43 AM
Welcome to 2010.

Mmmmm Mets new toy. Nice. I really am developing a hard spot for those.

Cicero
20-12-2009, 11:43 AM
Do you allow such sacrilegious images on this site?

Sam I Am
20-12-2009, 11:49 AM
Do you allow such sacrilegious images on this site?

Fits with the Brand.

dvm
20-12-2009, 11:52 AM
My understanding was that two of the cylinders didn't get enough cooling and they tended to seize.


That's why later they offset the rear 2 cylinders so that they would get more of the airflow.

Terry Porritt
20-12-2009, 12:21 PM
Welcome to 2010.

It looks so perfect that most likely nothing would ever go wrong, or you would never have to make a part for it, or never pull it apart to mod it or improve it.

Now where is the fun in that ? :)

Metla
20-12-2009, 12:25 PM
It looks so perfect that most likely nothing would ever go wrong, or you would never have to make a part for it, or never pull it apart to mod it or improve it.

Now where is the fun in that ? :)

I have had the bike for less then a week, and Ive been grinning so much I think I have broken my face.

The fun is in the riding,Not the fixing. And that's a good thing, Otherwise the British motorcycle industry would still be dead, But as it is the entire Triumph range stands alongside the best that any manufacturer puts out.

Terry Porritt
20-12-2009, 12:56 PM
Some bike alright....

"Triumph is celebrating 15 years of the Speed Triple, the most successful motorcycle of the company’s modern Hinckley era, with a distinctive limited edition model"

"Weighing in at 416 lbs. and developing 130hp and 77 ft. lbs. of torque, the 2009 Speed Triple and 1020 15th Anniversary Speed Triple are the lightest and most powerful versions to date. The bike’s distinctive triple sound is accompanied by a smooth and muscular power curve that pulls strongly from idle to red line. Handling is agile and precise and is augmented by powerful Brembo radial front caliper brakes."

“There are very few motorcycles that truly break through and shift design for the entire sport. The Speed Triple is one of those motorcycles,”

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/642/3214/Motorcycle-Article/2010-Triumph-Speed-Triple-SE-Released.aspx

prefect
20-12-2009, 03:02 PM
Is it as as good as a Trident?

Metla
20-12-2009, 04:38 PM
The resurrected Trident was also pretty damn fine, But the Speed Triple is better. Here's what the Trident looked like in 91

Metla
20-12-2009, 04:42 PM
And as for Norton, Their current bike is just too damn sexy.


http://www.nortonmotorcycles.com/bikes/Norton%20Commando%20961SE/

plod
20-12-2009, 04:55 PM
Welcome to 2010.

Nice, have riden the 955 and the 1050. Great bikes, they pull like a 15 old boy

SurferJoe46
20-12-2009, 05:01 PM
The older Square Fours had two different exhaust systems.

A 2-into-1 which resulted in two pipes with 2-cylinders running into each. The 4-single piped engines - and I'm not sure of the date there - had a rather unique sound, much like a Rootes Group British sports car.

Yeah - the rear cylinders ran hot and the bike had to be moving over 35MPH for normal cooling so stop and go driving was hard on them as they got hot with insufficient air over them.

I think they were gutless too - as the horses it could produce had to haul the bike and the driver around and that was too much weight.

For sheer fun and gut-power, the Honda CBX (http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/photogallerys/honda-cbx-1.jpg) (Warning - big picture!) was unique with 6-cylinders across the front and the individual exhaust system. They were orgasmic just hearing them start up.

I used to watch in awe - although I later realized it was misplaced - by the AJS (http://www.motorpsychorealms.org.uk/bikes/images/ajs-7r-350-1949.jpg) and Matchless (http://http://www.ajs-matchless-restoration.co.uk/uploads/44.jpg) singles like the Ducati (http://www.motomanuali.com/immaginiweb/galleriaimmagini/ducati%20desmo%20250_350_450.jpg) and the Montesas (http://www.mototype.com/pics/4707/full/montesa_impala_250rr.jpg) and Ossa (http://www.cybermotorcycle.com/gallery/ossa/images/Ossa_175_Sport_1964.jpg) and Two-Pipe Single Puchs (http://wolke7.birringer.at/~thomasg/Puch_TF/TF_1lcf5.jpg) that were THE dirt bike of the olden daze.

Anyone ever seen the Harley-Davidson Moped (http://http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3604/3590859880_cb8901a018.jpg)?

Terry Porritt
20-12-2009, 10:07 PM
Or, anyone seen the Vincent Firefly ?

http://ridevintage.wordpress.com/page-22-1954-vincent-firefly-on-raleigh-cycle-with-webb-forks/

SurferJoe46
21-12-2009, 11:28 AM
Or, anyone seen the Vincent Firefly ?

http://ridevintage.wordpress.com/page-22-1954-vincent-firefly-on-raleigh-cycle-with-webb-forks/

Geez! Is that what that was? I chopped one of these up for an engine for one of my larger RC aircraft.

I whacked off all the unnecessary hardware and brackets so I could fit it into a cowl of an RV-2 that I built and it powered a 24x8/10 JZ (Zinger) prop cut for me by Joe Zingalli. It flew well and was retired after many hours of air time at Mile Square Park in Fountain Valley, California to an RC flying club.

I did the same to an old Puch MoPed too. I just wanted a lightweight 2-cycle engine for some larger planes I built.

Terry Porritt
21-12-2009, 12:55 PM
What a nice model !

Then there was the Vincent Picador, a V-twin made for pilotless Queen Bee target drones.
These, when they became surplus (brand new) were sold for a ridiculously low price of £70 by Deeprose Bros in 1958, the innards were all top aircraft quality polished Lightning parts, Lightning heads, beautiful finish, drool drool, wish I had bought one.

A friend in the VOC bought one and transformed his Rapide into a 150 mph Lightning.

Of course it could also have been used for a light plane :)

http://www.thevincent.com/PicadorAU.jpg

John H
22-12-2009, 10:01 AM
If you want to hear a Vincent, go to: http://www.harrisvincentgallery.com/

Have your speakers turned up...

Terry Porritt
22-12-2009, 10:54 AM
If you want to hear a Vincent, go to: http://www.harrisvincentgallery.com/

Have your speakers turned up...

But if they are turned up too loud, then you can hear the renowned Vincent rattle :) This was caused mainly by worn rocker bushes and wear in the tunnel they were fitted in, in the cylinder heads.
Mods to remove the looseness resulted in much quieter engines.

Notice how pathetic the rear light is....that is a Miller unit. It is amazing there are any still around because most Vincent owners threw them away and fitted something that could actually be seen in the day or at night.

The reason Miller electrics were fitted is because Phil Irving had some some sort of friendship or collaboration with Miller, and for all R2x1 says about Lucas, it was a gross mistake on Phils part to use Miller.

I spoke to him once about this when he was staying with his mate Ron Hovenden, who had introduced me to Vincents.

BobM
27-12-2009, 02:49 PM
Just another old Ariel(s). I don't think any of them reached the USA. Sorry SJ. lol. Built in Opunake in 1966. Front motor 1952 model, rear 1948.

R2x1
29-12-2009, 09:37 PM
But if they are turned up too loud, then you can hear the renowned Vincent rattle :) This was caused mainly by worn rocker bushes and wear in the tunnel they were fitted in, in the cylinder heads.
Mods to remove the looseness resulted in much quieter engines.

Notice how pathetic the rear light is....that is a Miller unit. It is amazing there are any still around because most Vincent owners threw them away and fitted something that could actually be seen in the day or at night.

The reason Miller electrics were fitted is because Phil Irving had some some sort of friendship or collaboration with Miller, and for all R2x1 says about Lucas, it was a gross mistake on Phils part to use Miller.

I spoke to him once about this when he was staying with his mate Ron Hovenden, who had introduced me to Vincents.
Surely he could have fitted an electrical system, rather than either of those two more or less equivalent pieces of chicanery?