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View Full Version : i5, i7, 1156, 1366, dual channel, triple channel, I can't decide!



wratterus
23-10-2009, 09:38 AM
So much choice right at the moment, normally I have no hassle deciding on hardware for my own PC but this time round it's different. :p

Thinking I'd better upgrade to one of the new ATI cards soon, but that can wait a wee while. Was going to SLI GTX 260s as I have one already, but thinking that's not going to be the best option in the long run...

So.. :D

Mainly trying to decide on the right socket. I'm not 100% sure on the PIC-e x16 situation with 1156, can you have two cards running at x16 or does the 2nd card run at x8? That shouldn't be an issue anyway because I'm not really looking at SLI but I don't seem to be able to find a solid answer on this.

As far as I can tell, ignoring graphics cause I'll only have one card anyway, the main advantage to getting a 1366 socket setup is the ability to use triple channel RAM. From looking at benchmarks the gain doesn't look to be a lot, but the jump in cost is noticeable.

Not looking for a super computer, just a very grunty one. Will be running Win7 Pro x64. Very interested in your thoughts on the following system, and suggestions/reasons why different hardware would be better.

Motherboard (http://www.computerlounge.co.nz/components/componentview.asp?partid=10124)

CPU (http://www.computerlounge.co.nz/components/componentview.asp?partid=9848)

RAM (http://www.computerlounge.co.nz/components/componentview.asp?partid=10372)

Graphics (http://www.computerlounge.co.nz/components/componentview.asp?partid=10408) (later on, and Asus)

CPU Cooling (http://www.computerlounge.co.nz/components/componentview.asp?partid=10612)

Looking to spend around $1500 - $1600 on CPU, Motherboard and RAM.

+ heaps of karma (in the nonexistent system) for anyone who schools me.

Edit - if there is a good CPU cooler that's a bit sexier I wouldn't mind that... :p

Oh, and a SSD for the OS.

pctek
23-10-2009, 12:27 PM
Mainly trying to decide on the right socket.
I'll only have one card anyway, the main advantage to getting a 1366 socket setup is the ability to use triple channel RAM.

Motherboard (http://www.computerlounge.co.nz/components/componentview.asp?partid=10124)

CPU (http://www.computerlounge.co.nz/components/componentview.asp?partid=9848)

RAM (http://www.computerlounge.co.nz/components/componentview.asp?partid=10372)

Graphics (http://www.computerlounge.co.nz/components/componentview.asp?partid=10408) (later on, and Asus)

CPU Cooling (http://www.computerlounge.co.nz/components/componentview.asp?partid=10612)

.
1156, because it will take either,and triple ram is not worth bothering about.
And post the details, I can't be bothered clicking on several links to go see what you chose.

wratterus
23-10-2009, 12:31 PM
:p Fair enough PC.

Motherboard - Asus Maximus III Formula

CPU - Intel i7 860 Lynnfield

RAM - Corsair Dominator 4x 2GB DDR3-1600 8-8-8-24

Graphics - (when Asus releases the card) ATI Radeon 5850 1GB

hueybot3000
23-10-2009, 12:51 PM
Ive got that cpu, im yet to find a use for its grunt. Any reason your splashin out on the mobo? Mine overclocks to 3.8 fine and I have no idea what im doin in the new bios layout but im told 4 is easy and id believe that.

Save some bucks on the mobo I reckon, but CPU good choice :thumbs:

wratterus
23-10-2009, 12:55 PM
Cheers for that Huey.

There's a lot I like about that mobo, I know it's pretty dear and rather overkill-y. :xmouth:

I like the idea of the separate sound card for two reasons - should be better quality sound and there's more room on the mobo back panel for other plugs.

Heaps of USB on the back, I'm always running out. Heaps of SATA, a lot of boards only have 6 or so ports, not enough for me. 8+ is a must. I like doing everything possible on the board (without PCI cards and the like) the less cabling running from front to rear the better, for looks and for airflow.

Would you have a mobo in mind? P7P55D Pro / Deluxe?

hueybot3000
23-10-2009, 12:58 PM
Theres nothing wrong with the board, if I had the money I would of got one. But everything seems a little overkill atm. But if you've got the money then why not lol

wratterus
23-10-2009, 01:14 PM
Haha yeah. After looking at the P7P55D PRO that Maximus board just seems silly now. :eek:

Think that might be a better bet. Can put the saved $$$ towards a SSD. :thumbs:

wratterus
23-10-2009, 01:40 PM
Right - updated. Will purchase this lot in the next few weeks unless anyone else has a good reason why I should buy some different hardware. :p I know Sol is very knowledgeable on SSDs would be interested to see what he thought was a good drive. :thumbs:

Motherboard - Asus P7P55D Pro

CPU - Intel i7 860 Lynnfield

RAM - Corsair Dominator 4x 2GB DDR3-1600 8-8-8-24

SSD - Intel X25-M G2 80GB

Total - $1770 ish

whellington
23-10-2009, 01:58 PM
If you want 8 satas, this has 8 sata ports i think

http://www.computerlounge.co.nz/components/componentview.asp?partid=9856

Battleneter2
23-10-2009, 03:40 PM
I had this exact decision to make this week upgrading my personnel PC.

I went with 1366 for a few reasons.

*The new 6+ cores next year will not support 1156 only 1366.
*8X8X PCIE with CF & SLI configs on 1156, really could be a issue with next gen cards,where 1366 is 16x16
*There triple channel mem (low on the careometer).
*1366 Does slightly perform better than 1156 widely accepted.

Being a fairly heavy Overclocker the following caused me mild concern with the current 1156. The GENERAL belief is this will not be a issue for mild OC or stock clocked rigs, BUT no one knows for sure yet.

http://anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=3661
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1460140

On the down side my 1366 rig cost me about $150 more to buy and power/heat is a little higher than 1156 (ill hug a tree to make up for it :P)

So 1366 baby!!.

http://www.computerlounge.co.nz/components/componentview.asp?partid=8232

http://www.computerlounge.co.nz/components/componentview.asp?partid=7487

oh I have a Intel Intel X25-M G2 80GB on the way, ill let you know my opinion.

.

wratterus
27-10-2009, 11:30 AM
Thanks battle. I won't be doing any more than a very mild OC, so I don't expect to cook the board. :o

SolMiester
27-10-2009, 11:42 AM
Rat, i'd wait a couple of weeks more for the release of MSI Big Bang mobo with the hydra chip, then you can mix your gpus if you like. You also get 2 x pcix16 lanes on the P55 platform.
While the 1366 is nice if you need gulftown 12 threaded performance (err not), 8 threaded dual channel with linear gpu scaling will smack the bloomfield platform....
Countdown (http://event.msi.com/mb/bigbang/)
http://www.msi.com/index.php?func=newsdesc&news_no=863

edit...

Ocz Indilinx MLC SSD http://www.computerlounge.co.nz/components/componentview.asp?partid=8702

wratterus
27-10-2009, 11:48 AM
Great, thanks Sol. I'd forgotten about the big bang, that does look awesome. It almost seems to good to be true, wonder how they will sort out driver support etc etc. Will wait until they are released and make a decision then.

Thanks for the SSD link.

Battleneter2
27-10-2009, 12:26 PM
Nup for that sort of price you want the Intel X25-m G2 80gig SSD, its over all faster and has a bit more capacity for same ballpark, not to mention a new tech called Trim.

http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3667&p=1

http://www.computerlounge.co.nz/components/componentview.asp?partid=10307

Battleneter2
27-10-2009, 12:34 PM
Thanks battle. I won't be doing any more than a very mild OC, so I don't expect to cook the board. :o

btw not sure you read that article fully, its not about OC cooking boards its about poor CPU contact with the 1156 Foxcon socket that the fear "may" also effect stock and mild overclocks long term.

SolMiester
27-10-2009, 12:39 PM
Nup for that sort of price you want the Intel X25-m G2 80gig SSD, its over all faster and has a bit more capacity for same ballpark, not to mention a new tech called Trim.

http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3667&p=1

http://www.computerlounge.co.nz/components/componentview.asp?partid=10307

Yes, I just read that article thx.... most systems will undoubtedly do more random read\writes...I didnt see the G2 had come down in price that much!, $50 isnt the much more for 20gb

wratterus
27-10-2009, 01:36 PM
Yeah I had that Intel SSD in the build list originally.


btw not sure you read that article fully, its not about OC cooking boards its about poor CPU contact with the 1156 Foxcon socket that the fear "may" also effect stock and mild overclocks long term.

Yeah I did read it through... thought OC'ing would make the issue a lot worse though? tbh by now if it was a widespread issue I'd expect to see a few more people having it. It obviously isn't right and is caused by bad design, but with the warranties hardware has these days, I'm not super worried. Would like to wait a bit though, see what the manufacturers do about it.

KiwiTT_NZ
27-10-2009, 02:43 PM
I got a ASUS P6T 1366 and a Core i7 for longevity. I generally keep my computers for 6 years. As opposed to spending every 2-3 years on new ones. I can generally upgrade the components mid-life a couple of times.

1st Computer P133 (1996) -> upgraded to K2-300 (1998) -> RAM to 64 MB (1999)
2nd Computer Athlon XP 1800 (2002) -> Geforce 6600 GT (2005) - > 3 GB (2008)
3rd Computer Core i7

qazwsxokmijn
27-10-2009, 02:56 PM
I got a ASUS P6T 1366 and a Core i7 for longevity. I generally keep my computers for 6 years. As opposed to spending every 2-3 years on new ones. I can generally upgrade the components mid-life a couple of times.

1st Computer P133 (1996) -> upgraded to K2-300 (1998) -> RAM to 64 MB (1999)
2nd Computer Athlon XP 1800 (2002) -> Geforce 6600 GT (2005) - > 3 GB (2008)
3rd Computer Core i7
That may be a very good idea. I'm going to upgrade to X58 + 920 as well and probably have a good few years without upgrading the platform/CPU unlike now....in this year alone I've had 3 CPUs! Plus probably 6GB of DDR3 1600MHz and a 5870. I reckon the CPU, X58 motherboard and RAM should last me a good few years. The only thing that may need a yearly upgrade is probably the 5870.

In the long run this is probably going to save me money that I would have used to upgrade the CPU and RAM several times in a year.

SolMiester
27-10-2009, 03:06 PM
CPU speed has plateaued @ around 3-4ghz for the last 4 yrs, only multiple cores and better IPC has increased speed. A computer can now realistically last you over 5 yrs, which in my opinion, you couldnt do before....There is no way, a XP thoroughbred would last me 6 yrs...

Battleneter2
27-10-2009, 04:08 PM
The price diff to go 1366 is very pretty small "can" be as low as $50 depending on what sort of features you want in a mobo.

1156 wont have a 6 core+ where 1366 will, and 1366 has a longer life on the Intel roadmap. Add in 1366 slight better performance and the current 1156 issue and I realised why am i looking at 1156!

The ballpark has moved since 1156 was relaised with cheaper ram for tri dims and cheaper 1366 mobo's. That said they both go like stink lol.

SolMiester
27-10-2009, 04:18 PM
The price diff to go 1366 is very pretty small "can" be as low as $50 depending on what sort of features you want in a mobo.

1156 wont have a 6 core+ where 1366 will, and 1366 has a longer life on the Intel roadmap. Add in 1366 slight better performance and the current 1156 issue and I realised why am i looking at 1156!

The ballpark has moved since 1156 was relaised with cheaper ram for tri dims and cheaper 1366 mobo's. That said they both go like stink lol.

But 6 core isnt required (most software doesnt even use 8 threads yet), and the difference between the platform is only 3% at best. As for the socket issue, that only foxconn and will undoubtedly be fixed..

pctek
27-10-2009, 05:15 PM
1156 wont have a 6 core+ where 1366 will, and 1366 has a longer life on the Intel roadmap.

Who cares?
Everything changes. All the time.

While you are buying the latest whatever, the manufacturers are already working on the next thing.

You upgrade when necessary unless you are super rich.

Battleneter2
27-10-2009, 05:35 PM
Who cares?
Everything changes. All the time.

While you are buying the latest whatever, the manufacturers are already working on the next thing.

You upgrade when necessary unless you are super rich.

lol rather a odd post, you should always pic the best option with the information you have at the time, its common sence and logic taking into account of your personel budget. IF your al;ready about to spend 2K why not spend 2.2K for the better option.

And sure SolMiester its up to the individual as to the importance you place on more cores, although higher multithreading is the likely trend.

wratterus
28-10-2009, 02:46 PM
This is great, go the heated arguments. :thumbs:

SolMiester
28-10-2009, 02:52 PM
This is great, go the heated arguments. :thumbs:

I cant wait for the reviews on the hydra chip in MSI's big bang...imagine linear gpu scaling?, or 1 ati and 1 nv gpu...lol

inphinity
28-10-2009, 03:17 PM
lol rather a odd post, you should always pic the best option with the information you have at the time, its common sence and logic taking into account of your personel budget. IF your al;ready about to spend 2K why not spend 2.2K for the better option.

In that case, historically AMD has been the better choice for future-proof upgrade paths, as their platforms tend to have longer lifespan in terms of being supported technology, and more compatibility with future releases (look at AM2, AM2+, AM3 right now for example).

Won't be the best of the best performance right now, though.

SolMiester
28-10-2009, 03:18 PM
In that case, historically AMD has been the better choice for future-proof upgrade paths, as their platforms tend to have longer lifespan in terms of being supported technology, and more compatibility with future releases (look at AM2, AM2+, AM3 right now for example).

Won't be the best of the best performance right now, though.

Ah no, it hasnt been since 2006

SolMiester
29-10-2009, 12:17 PM
Wrat...bad news

http://www.guru3d.com/news.html#10231

wratterus
29-10-2009, 12:49 PM
Doh! I don't want to wait that long. Thanks Sol. So much for that idea then. Back to 1156/1366 decision. You never know, my new Asus mobo might just fry itself and I'll have to upgrade to something with the Hydra chip. :p

I like the look of this lot...

Motherboard - Asus P7P55D Pro

CPU - Intel i7 860 Lynnfield

RAM - Corsair Dominator 4x 2GB DDR3-1600 8-8-8-24

SSD - Intel X25-M G2 80GB

:cool:

qazwsxokmijn
29-10-2009, 12:55 PM
I personally would sacrifice the SSD and go for an X58 platform.

wratterus
29-10-2009, 01:03 PM
So we have...

1156

Motherboard - Asus P7P55D Pro

CPU - Intel i7 860 Lynnfield

RAM - Corsair Dominator 4x 2GB DDR3-1600 8-8-8-24

SSD - Intel X25-M G2 80GB

Total = $1770

1366

Motherboard - Asus P6T Deluxe

CPU - Intel i7 920 Nehalem

RAM - Corsair 3x 2GB DDR3-1866 7-8-7-20

SSD - Intel X25-M G2 80GB

Total = $2078

$300 difference, give or take. I'm not convinced lads! ;)

qazwsxokmijn
29-10-2009, 01:36 PM
Well for my X58 build these are what I'll be getting:

Asus P6T SE
i7 920
6GB Patriot Viper 1600
Total = $1143.63 + $550 for the Intel SSD (for you, Wrat, not me - I'm getting a 5870!) = 1693.63

All from CL

The Patriot got favourable reviews online and are good overclockers at 1.65v. Really they're just like the Dominator only cheaper + different cooling heatsink. They've got lifetime warranty and buying from CL makes you feel better too. I also chose P6T SE because I don't need the luxuries the Deluxe offers, eg 24GB instead of 12GB RAM etc. You just have to ask yourself: do I really need these extra features?

Many people have OC'ed their 920s to 4GHz and over on these P6T SEs, so I'm convinced! :D

Battleneter2
29-10-2009, 01:47 PM
Using Computer Lounge
The Asus P6T Deluxe is $545 (1366)
The Asus P7P55D Pro $275 (1156)

Not exactly apples for apples.

You could use a Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD3R Intel X58 DDR3 PCI-E LGA1366 $349 which does 16x Crossfire and SLi which is a nice option.
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/gigabyte_ga_ex58-ud3r_review/page12.asp

But I guess if you HAVE to have Asus P6T SE Motherboard
LGA1366 sells for around $362 but CF only.
http://www.tastech.co.nz/product_info.php?products_id=291640


I think Asus has a small hole in there linup atm.

Anyway that's the reason for your big diff add in the fact the 1366 has 2gig more ram and all of a sudden its basically the same cost ;)

Chilling_Silence
29-10-2009, 01:51 PM
lol rather a odd post, you should always pic the best option with the information you have at the time, its common sence and logic taking into account of your personel budget. IF your al;ready about to spend 2K why not spend 2.2K for the better option.

And sure SolMiester its up to the individual as to the importance you place on more cores, although higher multithreading is the likely trend.

IMO your logic is totally flawed for more than one reason:
1) Why stop at $2.2K? When you can spend another $200 and get an EVEN BETTER option?
Reason: Most people don't put *any* stress on their CPU's. Topping out around 3Ghz single-core is enough for all but gamers, or users of high-end audio / video processing.
2) Multithreading applications are the way the world will start heading, however the OS itself does a pretty decent job of passing load equally between multiple CPU's / Cores as it is, so realistically as a programmer,you dont HAVE to worry about programming for multiple threads. Performance may be gained if you keep it in mind, but still.

I mean lets be honest here, if you double-click on Internet Explorer with your 2Ghz+ Core i7, compared to my Media PC's 2.4Ghz P4, you're still going to be waiting 3-4 seconds for the HARD DRIVE, before you see it on your screen. All the CPU grunt in the world makes SFA difference when it comes to the better part of users.

I know somebody who goes absolutely anal about buying all the latest CPU's and things whenever he recommends hardware to people. Seriously though, if you're spending most of your time browsing, chatting, checking emails, even some light gaming, a 2Ghz Core 2 Duo will *more* than suffice! Heavy gaming perhaps something more, but again its NOT the CPU that matters.

That is why your logic is flawed ;)

wratterus
29-10-2009, 01:52 PM
Using Computer Lounge
The Asus P6T Deluxe is $545 (1366)
The Asus P7P55D Pro $275 (1156)

Not exactly apples for apples.


I'm comparing the features not the prices. ;)



You could use a Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD3R Intel X58 DDR3 PCI-E LGA1366 $349 which does 16x Crossfire and SLi which is a nice option.
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/gigabyte_ga_ex58-ud3r_review/page12.asp

That board looks OK, that's what Asus is missing in their line up ATM.


I think Asus has a small hole in there linup atm.


Agreed.


Anyway that's the reason for your big diff add in the fact the 1366 has 2gig more ram and all of a sudden its basically the same cost ;)

The 1366 has 6GB RAM, the 1156 has 8GB. ;) I don't think I should have to sacrifice features and numbers of ports on the board just to get a higher powered CPU that I probably won't use to anywhere near it's capabilities.

By the time apps need 12 threads, everyone's systems here will be long obsolete.

Copied from somewhere...


P6T can support a maximum of 12GB of RAM, has JMicron PATA, SATA, and eSATA chips, and a single Realtek Gigabit LAN. Audio is via a Realtek ALC1200.

The Deluxe can support a maximum of 24GB of RAM, has 2 SAS ports and Marvell for SATA, eSATA, and PATA. The Deluxe features 2 Marvel Gigabit ports. Slightly better audio on the Deluxe via the ADI AD2000B chip.

The general layout on the deluxe would work better for me personally.


Just my thoughts on it anyhow, I still haven't decided 100%... :p

qazwsxokmijn
29-10-2009, 01:52 PM
Anyway that's the reason for your big diff add in the fact the 1366 has 2gig more ram and all of a sudden its basically the same cost ;)
That and the fact that X58 is more expensive than P55. I mean the P6T SE is only an entry-level X58 motherboard. It's still laden with features, of course, which makes it appealing for me.

Battleneter2
29-10-2009, 02:05 PM
You try and tell Supreme Commander Forged Alliance with 3 or more ALX AI doesn't need more than 3Ghz. It clearly does benefit going to 4Ghz form a sim speed point of view, around 20% faster FYI!!. Sure examples are rare atm, but I DO play this myself often.


Nice rant Chilling_Silence I remember similar posts form certain people about the benefits of single core vs dual core 3-4 years ago, why do you need more than one core lol

But bottom line with 1366 & 1156 are so close in price (basically its the extra 2 gig ram diff), 1156 is not making a lot of sense when you research it, until recently there was a clear price advantage but not now.

Chilling_Silence
29-10-2009, 02:17 PM
No, wrong! The main bottleneck will be:
GPU -- To run at a high resolution with AA & AF will place more strain on the GPU than anything else. Yes it'll strain the CPU, but not as much, and as mentioned thats high-end gaming
RAM -- The actual game itself ends up using a truckload of RAM and starts running in to issues, as SolMiester and I have been over previously, using that exact game as a reference ;)

2GB RAM? When you've got 6GB already? Seriously what the hell are you doing? Gaming while converting videos while keeping 100 browser tabs open, with your office documents from the last two months all open? If you're going to game, close all your other crap down first so it doesn't interfere, regardless of having additional CPU / RAM to burn or not.

Tell me a game that will require you to have more than 4GB RAM total on a Vista / Win7 system, please! There is none.

And you know what? MOST still do NOT need more than 1 core, as mentioned, with the exception of high-end gamers, or those doing A/V work.

SolMiester
29-10-2009, 02:18 PM
Doh! I don't want to wait that long. Thanks Sol. So much for that idea then. Back to 1156/1366 decision. You never know, my new Asus mobo might just fry itself and I'll have to upgrade to something with the Hydra chip. :p

I like the look of this lot...

Motherboard - Asus P7P55D Pro

CPU - Intel i7 860 Lynnfield

RAM - Corsair Dominator 4x 2GB DDR3-1600 8-8-8-24

SSD - Intel X25-M G2 80GB

:cool:

sweet!

SolMiester
29-10-2009, 02:21 PM
I personally would sacrifice the SSD and go for an X58 platform.

Funny, Anand said that he had been using a SSD for about 12mth or so and wouldnt go back, that the difference a SSD made to any platform was so great....

I knida think he's saying something there....I reckon the difference between x58 & P55 isnt as great as a either with a SATA2 drive compared to SSD for the o/s...

Have you tried a SSD drive?

wratterus
29-10-2009, 02:29 PM
SSD is a must - no way I'm not getting one of those. Hard drives are such a huge bottleneck these days it's not even funny. :)

Thanks everyone for the continued input to this thread, it's great. :lol:

Battleneter2
29-10-2009, 02:40 PM
yea have to agree SSD is a huge pro, would def rather have a 1156 and SSD than a 1366 and a conventional HDD. There is no tangible performance diff between 1156 & 1366, well unless your focus is crunching.


Chilling_Silence stop trying to lecture about basic GPU/CPU bottle necking, what your spurting is basic 101 gaming rig information. .

Forged Alliance suffers "Sim speed" issues NOT FPS issues caused by a GPU bottleneck. It is a rare case, I have been heavily involved in investigating the poor AI pathways on larger maps. It is one of the few games that benefits having a I7@4gig over a I7@3gig.


Something like 99% of current games will top out with the GPU first at higher resolutions thats a given unless your SLI/CF esp Quad.

qazwsxokmijn
29-10-2009, 02:45 PM
Have you tried a SSD drive?
Got one for me to borrow? :D

.....seriously....:nerd:

wratterus
29-10-2009, 02:46 PM
Haha, I suppose mine could take a small detour on the way to mot... :p

qazwsxokmijn
29-10-2009, 03:02 PM
Haha, I suppose mine could take a small detour on the way to mot... :p
Really? :D

But what about all the problems with SSDs? The performance degradation, the point where the cells cannot be used anymore after a few years, etc?

wratterus
29-10-2009, 03:03 PM
Really? :D
No.

:lol: Jokes, why not.


But what about all the problems with SSDs? The performance degradation, the point where the cells cannot be used anymore after a few years, etc?
Yeah well. You live with these things. Wonder what the warranty period on them is?

Edit - and Battle, you seem to be the only one here arguing, everyone else is having a discussion. Chill is right.... ;)

Chilling_Silence
29-10-2009, 03:07 PM
Something like 99% of current games will top out with the GPU first at higher resolutions thats a given unless your SLI/CF esp Quad.

Oh so now you agree with me? That there's very little point in always wanting to save another few hundred for the "next model up"?

If what I'm saying is basic computing knowledge, why are you trying to prove me wrong?

As for SSD's, that's where your "feel" performance upgrade will be for general day-to-day use. Who saw that video where they put some 16-odd SSD's in RAID and then launched every application in their start menu in around 4 seconds? I want one, now I just need to convince SWMBO why I *need* one ;)

Battleneter2
29-10-2009, 03:09 PM
mispost

wratterus
29-10-2009, 03:11 PM
As for SSD's, that's where your "feel" performance upgrade will be for general day-to-day use. Who saw that video where they put some 16-odd SSD's in RAID and then launched every application in their start menu in around 4 seconds? I want one, now I just need to convince SWMBO why I *need* one ;)

Yeah, that was pure awesomeness. :p

I'm always waiting for hard drives, had enough of it.

Battleneter2
29-10-2009, 03:13 PM
Oh so now you agree with me? That there's very little point in always wanting to save another few hundred for the "next model up"?

If what I'm saying is basic computing knowledge, why are you trying to prove me wrong?

As for SSD's, that's where your "feel" performance upgrade will be for general day-to-day use. Who saw that video where they put some 16-odd SSD's in RAID and then launched every application in their start menu in around 4 seconds? I want one, now I just need to convince SWMBO why I *need* one ;)

Did you EVEN READ what I posted? I think you've been assuming

Seriously!!

I was talking about the 1156 socket issue
The fact that you wont be able to get 6 core+ when they are out
1366 has a longer life span than the 1156 currently at least
The price is similar so you may as well go for the 1366

Performance is a tiny part of the argument!

Battleneter2
29-10-2009, 03:15 PM
Forgod sakes, for those that cant look back



I had this exact decision to make this week upgrading my personnel PC.

I went with 1366 for a few reasons.

*The new 6+ cores next year will not support 1156 only 1366.
*8X8X PCIE with CF & SLI configs on 1156, really could be a issue with next gen cards,where 1366 is 16x16
*There triple channel mem (low on the careometer).
*1366 Does slightly perform better than 1156 widely accepted.

Being a fairly heavy Overclocker the following caused me mild concern with the current 1156. The GENERAL belief is this will not be a issue for mild OC or stock clocked rigs, BUT no one knows for sure yet.

http://anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=3661
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1460140

On the down side my 1366 rig cost me about $150 more to buy and power/heat is a little higher than 1156 (ill hug a tree to make up for it :P)

So 1366 baby!!.

http://www.computerlounge.co.nz/components/componentview.asp?partid=8232

http://www.computerlounge.co.nz/components/componentview.asp?partid=7487

oh I have a Intel Intel X25-M G2 80GB on the way, ill let you know my opinion.

.

qazwsxokmijn
29-10-2009, 03:16 PM
:lol: Jokes, why not.
That's very generous of you Wrat! Though I'm not comfortable using up your SSD's cells and degrading the performance no matter how slightly.....

And the fact that if I get the chance to play with it I might have to blow my budget and get an SSD myself!!

wratterus
29-10-2009, 03:20 PM
That's very generous of you Wrat! Though I'm not comfortable using up your SSD's cells and degrading the performance no matter how slightly.....

And the fact that if I get the chance to play with it I might have to blow my budget and get an SSD myself!!

;) All good. That's my thought too, I know if I used one I would end up buying it. :D

_____________________________________________

http://www.weissmann.us/hardforum/1156.jpg

http://www.weissmann.us/hardforum/1366.jpg

You do know battle, that the 'dots' made on the CPU aren't the marks from the socket right. The CPUs come out of the factory like that. I assume you're looking at the faint scuff marks?

before install with a foxconn 1156
http://home.comcast.net/~lathode/talon/860.jpg
after install " " " "
http://home.comcast.net/~lathode/talon/860_2.jpg

Coverage looks pretty good to me, I think a lot of the outcry was people comparing the dot marks on the 1366 socket to the 1156, not realizing that isn't anything to do with the coverage issue.

qazwsxokmijn
29-10-2009, 03:30 PM
;) All good. That's my thought too, I know if I used one I would end up buying it. :D
Yep, I think/know that by taking you up on your offer I'd be stepping into a dangerous money-blowing precedent. :lol:

The CPUs come out of the factory like that. I assume you're looking at the faint scuff marks?
Could it be that Intel tests all their CPUs before wrapping them in retail boxes/send them out to OEM channels? Do they test their CPUs before sending them out the door?

Oh and Wrat, if it's SLI you're looking for in a board - you do know you can flash a P6T SE with a vanilla P6T BIOS, which officially supports SLI. The only diff in the SE is apparently one less gigabit port, a couple of SATA/PATA port things and....yeah that's all I can remember.

wratterus
29-10-2009, 03:42 PM
Could it be that Intel tests all their CPUs before wrapping them in retail boxes/send them out to OEM channels? Do they test their CPUs before sending them out the door?


http://www.imagef1.net.nz/files/see.jpg

Not sure, that image should make sure everyone's on the same page with the marks on the CPU.



Oh and Wrat, if it's SLI you're looking for in a board - you do know you can flash a P6T SE with a vanilla P6T BIOS, which officially supports SLI. The only diff in the SE is apparently one less gigabit port, a couple of SATA/PATA port things and....yeah that's all I can remember.

Thanks, I think I may have read that somewhere, the SE isn't quite enough for what I want, but SLI isn't much of a concern for me, will look at getting a 58 series ATI card in the nearish future, but stick with the GTX 260 for a while. :thumbs:

Battleneter2
29-10-2009, 04:01 PM
;) All good. That's my thought too, I know if I used one I would end up buying it. :D

_____________________________________________

http://www.weissmann.us/hardforum/1156.jpg

http://www.weissmann.us/hardforum/1366.jpg

You do know battle, that the 'dots' made on the CPU aren't the marks from the socket right. The CPUs come out of the factory like that. I assume you're looking at the faint scuff marks?

before install with a foxconn 1156
http://home.comcast.net/~lathode/talon/860.jpg
after install " " " "
http://home.comcast.net/~lathode/talon/860_2.jpg

Coverage looks pretty good to me, I think a lot of the outcry was people comparing the dot marks on the 1366 socket to the 1156, not realizing that isn't anything to do with the coverage issue.

Yea its the faint scuff marks. Its hard to see in many other shots so i am on the fence, but there are some respected testers and overclockers that believe there are issues in multiple forums so I cant agree with your prognosis. Worst case assuming more manufactures change socket manufacture and Foxconn re-design this is only a short term issue.

I do however believe its worth considering if your buying "now", in two months with new inventory it will all be forgotten about.

wratterus
29-10-2009, 04:07 PM
Yea its the faint scuff marks. Its hard to see in many other shots so i am on the fence, but there are some respected testers and overclockers that believe there are issues in multiple forums so I cant agree with your prognosis. Worst case assuming more manufactures change socket manufacture and Foxconn re-design this is only a short term issue..

Uh, my prognosis was what exactly? I have never said there wasn't an issue.

hueybot3000
29-10-2009, 04:10 PM
It doesnt really matter which way you go now. By the time an i7 is no good most of the regulars on here would have updated again anyway. Im always bang for buck but my i7 upgrade wasnt necessary at all really.

My e6600 and 3.6ghz was more than enough for ANY game. GPU always bottled the system and with 4 gig of ram there was always ram free.

I only expect to use my current system for 18-24 months before upgradin again so I went with 1156, cheaper and still more than enough grunt to be future proof.

ANd who cares about 6 core cpus, there isnt really all that much out that makes the most of 4 yet

Battleneter2
29-10-2009, 04:11 PM
Coverage looks pretty good to me, I think a lot of the outcry was people comparing the dot marks on the 1366 socket to the 1156, not realizing that isn't anything to do with the coverage issue.

oh I just meant this, I think thats a little simplistic.

And sure hueybot300 if you dont care about 6 cores or the 8x8 Sli CF, or the socket issue go 1156 its a personal choice, just so long as its a informed choice.

wratterus
29-10-2009, 04:16 PM
oh I just meant this, I think thats a little simplistic.


Gotcha. Looking at the thread you linked to, there seemed to be a lot of noobs getting their panic on after looking at the pics, thinking the dots were the marks left by the socket. I think that had made a lot of people panic, where the issue is not quite the same thing. There are certainly problems, no doubt there, but what are 3 year warranties for?

hueybot3000
29-10-2009, 04:18 PM
oh I just meant this, I think thats a little simplistic.

And sure hueybot300 if you dont care about 6 cores or the 8x8 Sli CF, or the socket issue go 1156 its a personal choice, just so long as its a informed choice.

My socket is just fine, and if it dies thats what warranty is for

wratterus
29-10-2009, 04:40 PM
But what about all the problems with SSDs? The performance degradation, the point where the cells cannot be used anymore after a few years, etc?

Just checked with Paul @ CL, the Intel SSDs come with a 3 year warranty. I'm pretty happy with that. :thumbs:

Speedy Gonzales
29-10-2009, 04:47 PM
If you decide to get an Intel SSD right now, dont update its firmware straight away. Intel screwed it up (the other day), and it made a system unbootable, if you use the X25-M. If you use Windows 7

qazwsxokmijn
29-10-2009, 04:48 PM
Just checked with Paul @ CL, the Intel SSDs come with a 3 year warranty. I'm pretty happy with that. :thumbs:
Just saw an article can't remember where exactly (I've been studying for bio, writing a philosophy assignment and checking out SSD stuff all at the same time) about the X25-M. Intel says based on a 100GB/day data write the X25-M should last you 5 years at least. I've never had an HDD for that long myself, but I have some reservations on spending $550 for a rapidly growing technology....

Who knows, convince me when you've got it please!! :D

SolMiester
29-10-2009, 10:15 PM
Got one for me to borrow? :D

.....seriously....:nerd:

Wait in line mate...

SolMiester
29-10-2009, 10:17 PM
Really? :D

But what about all the problems with SSDs? The performance degradation, the point where the cells cannot be used anymore after a few years, etc?

research - latest updates including TRIM (http://anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3667)

SolMiester
29-10-2009, 10:22 PM
As for SSD's, that's where your "feel" performance upgrade will be for general day-to-day use. Who saw that video where they put some 16-odd SSD's in RAID and then launched every application in their start menu in around 4 seconds? I want one, now I just need to convince SWMBO why I *need* one ;)


You should see some of Anand's reviews....i like the sql random read\writes....probably 1 of the 1st reviews....I want for my virtual sql server data files...something in the region of 60x the performance of raid 0 on 4 15k SAS drives....thats is so far keen fast, can you imagine how many spindles you would need to get that on SAS...LMAO

SolMiester
29-10-2009, 10:24 PM
Forgod sakes, for those that cant look back

I want to hear your results and feelings on the Intel when it comes....have to say, i'm so jealous...

SolMiester
29-10-2009, 10:30 PM
Just saw an article can't remember where exactly (I've been studying for bio, writing a philosophy assignment and checking out SSD stuff all at the same time) about the X25-M. Intel says based on a 100GB/day data write the X25-M should last you 5 years at least. I've never had an HDD for that long myself, but I have some reservations on spending $550 for a rapidly growing technology....

Who knows, convince me when you've got it please!! :D


I think you have the figures wrong mate....5 yrs...LOL

http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3631&p=6

qazwsxokmijn
29-10-2009, 10:36 PM
I think you have the figures wrong mate....5 yrs...LOL

http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3631&p=6
Penta-post Sol! :eek:

Those are interesting stuff you posted, didn't look at those ones.

SolMiester
29-10-2009, 10:38 PM
Penta-post Sol! :eek

Those are interesting stuff you posted, didn't look at those ones.

If you are serious about hardware, Anandtech IMHO is the best site going...

qazwsxokmijn
29-10-2009, 10:48 PM
Alright, now I think I'm a bit confuzzled. I don't have time to read ALL that in midst of studies, so can you tell me if I'm right Sol?

So if I understand correctly, TRIM will prevent SSDs from keeping track of invalid data which degrades the memory cell? So does that mean SSDs with TRIM will be as good as normal HDDs and not take a performance toll as it ages?

whellington
29-10-2009, 10:52 PM
Looks like the 920 is getting a replacement and the X58 platform keeping a reasonably priced processors.



Intel may be set to discontinue its excellent Core i7-920 chip within the next few months, but we've just heard confirmation that its replacement will arrive in Q1 2010.

It'll be called the Core i7-930.

At 2.88GHz it'll be a drop-in quad-core, eight thread upgrade for current LGA 1366 motherboards, although we're yet to find out whether this will be a 45nm or 32nm part.

We've also heard prices are likely to be comparable to the current Core i7-920 too, meaning that those LGA 1156 Core i7-860s and 870s will still have to drop in price considerably to become attractive for UK buyers. If you're planning an upgrade, we'd still advise LGA 1366 as the route to take.


http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2009/10/28/core-i7-930-arriving-q1-2010/1

Just in time for a new year upgrade, and good news on the possible price drops on the 1156 i7s.

qazwsxokmijn
29-10-2009, 11:00 PM
Hmmm maybe I'll put off my planned upgrade till next year? What do you guys reckon?

SolMiester
29-10-2009, 11:10 PM
Alright, now I think I'm a bit confuzzled. I don't have time to read ALL that in midst of studies, so can you tell me if I'm right Sol?

So if I understand correctly, TRIM will prevent SSDs from keeping track of invalid data which degrades the memory cell? So does that mean SSDs with TRIM will be as good as normal HDDs and not take a performance toll as it ages?

TRIM wipes invalid\deleted or modified data and prevent degrading of the drive in MLC models, IE the cheap ones....

qazwsxokmijn
29-10-2009, 11:19 PM
So TRIM is going to make sure MLC-based SSDs do not degrade, and therefore negate the 5-year minimum lifespan?

SolMiester
30-10-2009, 09:21 AM
MSI has the new motherboard listed now on the web site, its called Trinergy!
http://eu.msi.com/index.php?func=proddesc&maincat_no=1&cat2_no=&cat3_no=&prod_no=1938

Its doesnt look to have the hydra chipa, but the Nvidia NF200 chipset (new) for 3 PCIe slots 2 @ 16 and 1 @ 8, but you cant mix cards....

wratterus
30-10-2009, 09:37 AM
MSI has the new motherboard listed now on the web site, its called Trinergy!
http://eu.msi.com/index.php?func=proddesc&maincat_no=1&cat2_no=&cat3_no=&prod_no=1938

Its doesnt look to have the hydra chipa, but the Nvidia NF200 chipset (new) for 3 PCIe slots 2 @ 16 and 1 @ 8, but you cant mix cards....

Very nice.

wratterus
13-11-2009, 12:05 PM
Well, here is the final result. :D

Antec Twelve Hundred
Silverstone 750w PSU
Asus P7P55D Pro
Intel i7 860 2.8GHz
4x2GB (8GB) Corsair Dominator DDR3-1600
Intel X25-M G2 80GB SSD
Prolimatech Megahalems CPU cooler with 1156 socket mount and Scythe LED Fan

I can't believe I bought the Antec Twelve Hundred over the TJ-10, but I did. Really do like the look of it.

That lot is also going with a 750w Silvertsone PSU, Asus GTX 260, 3x 1TB, 1x 500GB, 1x 320GB and 1x 250GB Seagate hard drives. Going to use my current LiteOn DVD RW but upgrade to a BluRay drive/DVD burner soon.

Going to wait until Nvidia release their new graphics cards, re-assess the situation and buy a big mother something or other card.

Thanks heaps for everyone's help, especially Sol with the technical stuff about SSDs etc. This was by far the most difficult build to put together I've done, there's so many options right at the moment to choose from.

Metla
13-11-2009, 12:10 PM
Ive got that cpu, im yet to find a use for its grunt.

Have you run passmark on her?,I'd be interested in the CPU result.

qazwsxokmijn
13-11-2009, 12:40 PM
Well, here is the final result. :D

Antec Twelve Hundred
Silverstone 750w PSU
Asus P7P55D Pro
Intel i7 860 2.8GHz
4x2GB (8GB) Corsair Dominator DDR3-1600
Intel X25-M G2 80GB SSD
Prolimatech Megahalems CPU cooler with 1156 socket mount and Scythe LED Fan

I can't believe I bought the Antec Twelve Hundred over the TJ-10, but I did. Really do like the look of it.

That lot is also going with a 750w Silvertsone PSU, Asus GTX 260, 3x 1TB, 1x 500GB, 1x 320GB and 1x 250GB Seagate hard drives. Going to use my current LiteOn DVD RW but upgrade to a BluRay drive/DVD burner soon.

Going to wait until Nvidia release their new graphics cards, re-assess the situation and buy a big mother something or other card.

Thanks heaps for everyone's help, especially Sol with the technical stuff about SSDs etc. This was by far the most difficult build to put together I've done, there's so many options right at the moment to choose from.
Nice,,,,:drool

hueybot3000
13-11-2009, 04:56 PM
Have you run passmark on her?,I'd be interested in the CPU result.

Will do it when pc is back together, got water problems atm :horrified

And nice selection wrat, you wont be disappointed. Id be interested to know what the ssd does for you cos thats what i lack really compared with your build

hueybot3000
14-11-2009, 01:11 AM
Ran passmark, not really sure how it all works but overall results...graphics are the bottlekneck by far I think

Stock
Overall: 1535.6
CPU Mark: 6122.0

At 4ghz
Overall: 1906
CPU Mark: 8187

Super pi (1m) at stock is 11seconds, at 4ghz 10 and 4.2ghz 9. Not sure why but significant drop in time for 4.2ghz but couldnt get it cool enough cos ive had to butcher the 775 mount on the cpu block to fit as the "i7" bracket doesnt fit socket 1156

Any other benches anyone wants give me a yell, its kinda fun actually lol

Metla
14-11-2009, 09:11 AM
My CPU score was 1200.:confused::confused::confused:

I'm having a hard time believing CPU's got many many times more powerful in such a short space of time.

qazwsxokmijn
14-11-2009, 11:01 AM
Why what have you got?

Metla
14-11-2009, 11:08 AM
AMD 4600x2

hueybot3000
14-11-2009, 11:11 AM
That does seem to be a big difference, Im actually suprised at how beastly these things are really

Metla
14-11-2009, 11:16 AM
I'm just a little jealous:annoyed:.

Spewing on not having any money.

hueybot3000
14-11-2009, 11:17 AM
Well i dont have any money now lol

Chilling_Silence
14-11-2009, 02:47 PM
Also, it's not that CPU's got specifically much faster, just they got smaller and added more cores ;)

Battleneter2
14-11-2009, 04:12 PM
My CPU score was 1200.:confused::confused::confused:

I'm having a hard time believing CPU's got many many times more powerful in such a short space of time.

Syntetic Benchmarks are wortheless, however the X2 processors are a long way behind Core2 and even further I7 clock for clock.

Most Syntechtic benchmarks take into account all cores, so a dual core will be like half the score of a quad, and in real performance terms thats basically garbage of course accept in crunching. I do believe we are starting to see the point where dual cores below 3Ghz are starting to bottleneck some high end GPU's slighlty in a few games at high resolutions, but they still have life left in them yet.