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View Full Version : Shooter party in Oz calls the shots



prefect
17-08-2009, 08:36 AM
http://www.smh.com.au/national/rees-stuck-as-shooters-refuse-to-give-an-inch-20090816-emdj.html

I am hoping someone starts a shooters party here it would have my vote.
For some bizarre reason they have a lot of Asians and immigrants voting for the Shooters party in Australia.
I thought the party would be a bunch of ute owning, beer swilling good ol boys.

Cicero
17-08-2009, 11:03 AM
http://www.smh.com.au/national/rees-stuck-as-shooters-refuse-to-give-an-inch-20090816-emdj.html

I am hoping someone starts a shooters party here it would have my vote.
For some bizarre reason they have a lot of Asians and immigrants voting for the Shooters party in Australia.
I thought the party would be a bunch of ute owning, beer swilling good ol boys.

And mine.

Terry Porritt
17-08-2009, 11:33 AM
Why?? We already have a hunting fraternity that can hunt in Forest Parks, National Parks and other areas like the local land controlled by the Wellington Regional Council, the catchment area, Pakuratahi Forest, the Akatarawas etc, and we have the NZDA.

However like in the article, recreational hunters are nowhere near as effective in culling as the 'official' cullers.

Quoting
"One document shows that the Game Council issued 9000 hunting licences across the state between 2006 and 2007 and that 6000 feral animals were shot (0.5 pest animals per hunter per year). At the same time, one three-day cull by the Department of Environment and Climate Change resulted in 3000 feral pigs being culled, illustrating how much more effective departmental teams were than the Game Council in ridding the state of feral animals."

It is the same here, of course hunters don't want to actually get rid of all feral / exotic pests altogether, they want to preserve them so that they can carry on enjoying killing them.

Cullers employed by DOC and the regional council have a job to do and they get on and do it effectively.

Greg
17-08-2009, 11:38 AM
And here was I, seeing the thread title, thinking that its gonna be a meeting of blokes drinking tequilla shots/shooters. Boring.

Cicero
17-08-2009, 11:42 AM
carry on enjoying killing them.



.

We prefer to kill them b4 we eat them.

I hope you didn't have lamb for dins over the weekend.

PaulD
17-08-2009, 11:42 AM
And here was I, seeing the thread title, thinking that its gonna be a meeting of blokes drinking tequilla shots/shooters. Boring.

Same guys :p

Terry Porritt
17-08-2009, 12:04 PM
We prefer to kill them b4 we eat them.

I hope you didn't have lamb for dins over the weekend.

Get real Cic, hunters enjoy killing, any meat they carry back, if they get a kill, is a bonus, that is why they are called recreational hunters.

Cullers may also enjoy killing, but they are doing a job, and many times more effectively than recreational hunters.

Edit: you haven't answered the question as to why you want a shooters party here .

prefect
17-08-2009, 12:25 PM
Because we could get more gun friendly laws and a change to self defence laws would be a good start.
Shooting on DOC land in NZ should be a right not a privilege.

Terry Porritt
17-08-2009, 12:40 PM
.............................................

Shooting on DOC land in NZ should be a right not a privilege.

I'll ignore the first bit.. but your second sentence is not logical.

I suppose you are complaining about obtaining a permit ?
No problem there, I haven't heard before of any recreational hunters complaining about permits.

It gives some degree of control over who is where and helps to prevent clowns shooting each other as well as getting returns on kill rate.

Cicero
17-08-2009, 02:18 PM
Get real Cic, hunters enjoy killing, any meat they carry back, if they get a kill, is a bonus, that is why they are called recreational hunters.

Cullers may also enjoy killing, but they are doing a job, and many times more effectively than recreational hunters.

Edit: you haven't answered the question as to why you want a shooters party here .

We must assume you would deny mans instincts and wish to go with the do gooders thinking,you must think things through.

Terry Porritt
17-08-2009, 02:37 PM
We must assume you would deny mans instincts and wish to go with the do gooders thinking,you must think things through.

You do try hard Cic, but your logic is poor today, and your assumptions faulty :)

Edit: you still have not said why you want a shooters party here

Cicero
17-08-2009, 05:19 PM
You do try hard Cic, but your logic is poor today, and your assumptions faulty :)

Edit: you still have not said why you want a shooters party here

To counter-act the likes of you who would disarm us.

I killed 50 clay pigeons yesterday and thought old Ter would go on about how sorry he was for said pieons.

Sorry if your wrong thinking Ter,seems to think I am wrong,and as yet that has never been found to be so.

qazwsxokmijn
17-08-2009, 05:36 PM
Shooting on DOC land in NZ should be a right not a privilege.
There's a perfectly good reason why you are not allowed to shoot as you please on DOC land. The presence of hunters will disturb the population of protected animals, directly or otherwise.

For example you could unknowingly be stowing a rat in your ute, or a disease that could decimate the protected population of kakapo or kiwi. Even one rat in its lifetime could significantly reduce the number of kiwis in an area, or even wipe them out completely. Not only that any game animals you kill and leave behind may pose a health risk to said population of protected animals.

Really, there is a perfectly sound reason as to why DOC land should remain hunter-free and as undisturbed as possible. We are trying to protect the endemic species of NZ that are becoming increasingly scarce. NZ is one of the leading countries in conservation and any move to legalise free uncontrolled hunting on DOC land will face massive opposition.

Terry Porritt
17-08-2009, 05:45 PM
To counter-act the likes of you who would disarm us.

I killed 50 clay pigeons yesterday and thought old Ter would go on about how sorry he was for said pieons.

Sorry if your wrong thinking Ter,seems to think I am wrong,and as yet that has never been found to be so.

Oh dear poor clay pigeons, never mind more can be made.

I'm really just stating the facts as I see them, hunters enjoy the kill. There is no question of me denying man's basic instincts, no matter what definition of 'deny' is used, i.e not either condemning or trying to prevent.

They also do not want all feral animals, deer, goat, pigs, possum killed because then they would no longer be able to enjoy the kill. Neither do recreational hunters keep the pest population under control, plenty of reports over the years to support that statement.

I would like to see all such pests eradicated by whatever means as soon as possible, not in order that hunters can no longer enjoy the kill, but so that the flora can rejuvenate :) That's what being a do-gooder is....kill the pig.........kill the pig.............:clap

Prefect's nonsense about shooting on DOC land means he knows little about it :)
DOC welcomes hunters as a means of pest cont

Umpteen places to shoot and enjoy a kill.....

http://www.doc.govt.nz/parks-and-recreation/activity-finder/activity-finder-places-summary/?act=hunting

In the days of The Forest Service a permit was for 30 days, and you had to state where you were intending to hunt, it was also required if you took a dog tramping, though I only occasionally applied for one.

Nowadays a permit is for 6 months, well at least in the Tararuas

Edit: Just seen Gazworx nonsense, you can hunt most places, but dogs are not allowed in many. Just look at the DOC site

Edit again: something wrong with the DOC site, try this

http://www.doc.govt.nz/parks-and-recreation/activity-finder/hunting/

Terry Porritt
17-08-2009, 05:56 PM
There's a perfectly good reason why you are not allowed to shoot as you please on DOC land. The presence of hunters will disturb the population of protected animals, directly or otherwise.

For example you could unknowingly be stowing a rat in your ute, or a disease that could decimate the protected population of kakapo or kiwi. Even one rat in its lifetime could significantly reduce the number of kiwis in an area, or even wipe them out completely. Not only that any game animals you kill and leave behind may pose a health risk to said population of protected animals.

Really, there is a perfectly sound reason as to why DOC land should remain hunter-free and as undisturbed as possible. We are trying to protect the endemic species of NZ that are becoming increasingly scarce. NZ is one of the leading countries in conservation and any move to legalise free uncontrolled hunting on DOC land will face massive opposition.

Really most of this is just nonsense

qazwsxokmijn
17-08-2009, 05:57 PM
Edit: Just seen Gazworx nonsense, you can hunt most places, but dogs are not allowed in many. Just look at the DOC site

Edit again: something wrong with the DOC site, try this

http://www.doc.govt.nz/parks-and-recreation/activity-finder/hunting/
Yeah, you can still hunt on most places. Some sensitive areas are heavily regulated. What I take from prefect's comment was that no regulation was needed when hunting in these areas which is of course not a good idea at all.

qazwsxokmijn
17-08-2009, 05:58 PM
Really most of this is just nonsense
Which part?

Terry Porritt
17-08-2009, 06:36 PM
Paragraph1...There's a perfectly good reason why you are not allowed to shoot as you please on DOC land. The presence of hunters will disturb the population of protected animals, directly or otherwise.

Paragraph2.....For example you could unknowingly be stowing a rat in your ute, or a disease that could decimate the protected population of kakapo or kiwi. Even one rat in its lifetime could significantly reduce the number of kiwis in an area, or even wipe them out completely. Not only that any game animals you kill and leave behind may pose a health risk to said population of protected animals.

Paragraph3.....Really, there is a perfectly sound reason as to why DOC land should remain hunter-free and as undisturbed as possible. We are trying to protect the endemic species of NZ that are becoming increasingly scarce. NZ is one of the leading countries in conservation and any move to legalise free uncontrolled hunting on DOC land will face massive opposition.

What parts are nonsense?

First I will concede there are a very few protected areas, such as predator free islands for example where your comments will apply.
but as regards the vast majority of The DOC estate they do not.

Paragraph1 Except for special areas, the public have right of access. The presence or otherwise of tramper/hunters/white-reebok tourists will have little or no affect on bird life. Those are the animmals we are talking about., including the ground birds.

As the DOC website shows hunting is allowed with permits over most of the DOC estate, most of the time.

Paragraph2 Having stowaway rats is only of significance as regards predator free islands, and mainland 'islands' such as Karori Wild Life Reserve, where you have to pass through a 'rat lock' and have any packs searched.

If you have ever spent any time in the bush then you should be aware of bush rats being everywhere.

Paragraph3 As I said DOC welcome hunters as a means of reducing pests such as deer pig and goat.

DOC land is not hunter free now, so it remaining hunter free is a meaningless expression

Hunters are not going to hunt Kiwi if there are no deer/pig :), they are helping to get rid of pests.
Birds are the only endemic vertebrate species in New Zealand (apart from a bat).

Greg
17-08-2009, 06:37 PM
Same guys :pLOLOL :D

Cicero
17-08-2009, 06:53 PM
And never the twain shall meet!!

Terry Porritt
17-08-2009, 07:03 PM
And never the twain shall meet!!

There's no answer to that if you don't say who the twain are :)

Anyway I still can't seem to find out why you and Prefect want a shooter party.

You are afraid of being disarmed if we don't have one, and Prefect seems to want to be able to shoot people who may be threatening him :banana

Cicero
17-08-2009, 07:13 PM
There's no answer to that if you don't say who the twain are :)

Anyway I still can't seem to find out why you and Prefect want a shooter party.

You are afraid of being disarmed if we don't have one, and Prefect seems to want to be able to shoot people who may be threatening him :banana

I take it you would rather let them shoot you than protect yourself.
Not really that tricky,re shoot party.
There are those among-st us who hate guns and probably humanity as well,and given half a chance they would disarm us,Phillip Alpers comes to mind.
Oh and Terry Porritt.

There was an Isaac Poritt in my village as a lad,if you had talked of removing guns from him,your botty would have been sore for days.

prefect
17-08-2009, 07:22 PM
I hate Philip Alpers more than any person on this planet.
The right to self defence was only lost about 25 years ago I just want it back.
I have got permits for shooting fallow in Kahurangi National park so know the procedure.
Some greenies in DOC are anti gun and anti shooting I can only hope they dont get into positions of power to limit shooting on public land.

qazwsxokmijn
17-08-2009, 07:46 PM
What parts are nonsense?

First I will concede there are a very few protected areas, such as predator free islands for example where your comments will apply.
but as regards the vast majority of The DOC estate they do not.

Paragraph1 Except for special areas, the public have right of access. The presence or otherwise of tramper/hunters/white-reebok tourists will have little or no affect on bird life. Those are the animmals we are talking about., including the ground birds.

As the DOC website shows hunting is allowed with permits over most of the DOC estate, most of the time.

Paragraph2 Having stowaway rats is only of significance as regards predator free islands, and mainland 'islands' such as Karori Wild Life Reserve, where you have to pass through a 'rat lock' and have any packs searched.

If you have ever spent any time in the bush then you should be aware of bush rats being everywhere.

Paragraph3 As I said DOC welcome hunters as a means of reducing pests such as deer pig and goat.

DOC land is not hunter free now, so it remaining hunter free is a meaningless expression

Hunters are not going to hunt Kiwi if there are no deer/pig :), they are helping to get rid of pests.
Birds are the only endemic vertebrate species in New Zealand (apart from a bat).
Ah yes, that makes more sense. I was commenting based on my limited knowledge of general conservation.

But as for the last bit - I understand hunters won't hunt kiwi but wouldn't some action of the hunter, deliberate or not may contribute to some harm? Maybe litter?

R2x1
17-08-2009, 07:49 PM
Why don't we have game preserves where organised groups could go out and shoot Morris Dancers, with extra bonus points for every tap dancer they bag?

Terry Porritt
17-08-2009, 07:57 PM
I take it you would rather let them shoot you than protect yourself.
Not really that tricky,re shoot party.
There are those among-st us who hate guns and probably humanity as well,and given half a chance they would disarm us,Phillip Alpers comes to mind.
Oh and Terry Porritt.

There was an Isaac Poritt in my village as a lad,if you had talked of removing guns from him,your botty would have been sore for days.

Shakes his head......there you go again drawing conclusions about people out of thin air....sometimes I despair. Where did I say I was anti-gun?

Then we have Prefect, initialy said "Shooting on DOC land in NZ should be a right not a privilege"

Well, with a permit it is already virtually a right as long as you have a gun licence, presumably he would like to see the permit system scrapped?

As the DOC site says I repeat hunting is welcomed on DOC land.

Let me quote from the back of the DOC Tararua map.....

"Hunting is encouraged in Tararua Forest Park to help the Department of Conservation control deer, goats, and pigs which harm native plants.
................. Hunting permits are required and are obtainable from the Department of Conservation offices listed. They are current for a 6 month period"

So lets cut the crap, forget all the hunting nonsense, and nonsense about DOC or some of DOC being anti gun, and get to the heart of the matter, the wanting of the right to bear arms as do the Americans and the private armies over there

Terry Porritt
17-08-2009, 08:32 PM
[QUOTE=qazwsxokmijn;811164......................... .....

But as for the last bit - I understand hunters won't hunt kiwi but wouldn't some action of the hunter, deliberate or not may contribute to some harm? Maybe litter?[/QUOTE]

Yes, there is an element in the hunting fraternity that leaves a lot to be desired in their general behaviour.

Many times I have seen carcass remains scattered in and around huts and in rubbish pits in the Tararuas, beer bottles left in huts on the 'tops',ie high level huts where the hunters have been flown in by helicopter, then left their rubbish behind.
A pigs head left on a tree stump, dripping blood very near to Puteore hut in Waitotara Forest, and remains around the hut.

Then there have been those who have deliberately spread 1080 poison in public walking areas and outside of official drop areas as a protest against its use, and also fired shots into the regional council offices.

The thing is until the last pests are eradicated, then hunting will be required, even though the recreational hunters only contribute a bit to control.