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Cheezels
09-08-2009, 12:11 AM
Donate $20, 0800 Telethon!

bk T
09-08-2009, 12:20 AM
Donate $20, 0800 Telethon!

Good on you.

I donated $200/- in 1988's (just arrived in NZ) telethon and after seeing the way they managed the donations, I told myself not to be a fool anymore! Why donate money to those organiser? How many percent of the donations raised really reach those needed?

R2x1
09-08-2009, 12:38 AM
If it's twenty bucks for the 0800 number, it may pay to keep clear of the 0900 number :horrified

Greg
09-08-2009, 02:29 AM
I occasionaly make donations, eg Westpac rescue helicoptor. But I reckon it's better to do some volunteer work. I did a year helping the NZ Foundation for the Blind, and that felt mch more rewarding than giving a few bucks.

mikebartnz
09-08-2009, 05:02 AM
Donate $20, 0800 Telethon!
I think you can go screw your self because you will find half the money doesn't even get to where it is meant to be going.

mikebartnz
09-08-2009, 05:04 AM
I occasionaly make donations, eg Westpac rescue helicoptor. But I reckon it's better to do some volunteer work. I did a year helping the NZ Foundation for the Blind, and that felt mch more rewarding than giving a few bucks.
:clap

Cheezels
09-08-2009, 08:03 AM
I think you can go screw your self because you will find half the money doesn't even get to where it is meant to be going.

I've already donated $80. Apparently all the stars and stuff are doing it for free?

somebody
09-08-2009, 08:36 AM
I've already donated $80. Apparently all the stars and stuff are doing it for free?

The operating costs of the telethon have already been paid for by corporate sponsors, so every cent raised goes to the Kids Can trust. TV3 won't be taking a cut of the donations.

However, I still won't be donating. In a country like NZ with such a supportive social welfare system, there is absolutely no excuse for kids to be going hungry, or without raincoats, shoes etc when their parents are receiving substantial financial assistance from the taxpayer.

I do make an effort to donate to organisations like Lifeflight air ambulance - services which should receive taxpayer funding but don't.

kenj
09-08-2009, 09:07 AM
I am afraid I agree with Somebody - it will just be another handout to those who leave the kids hungry and cold while they waste the benefit.

We donate to local schools for fundraising for trips, Local hospice, St. John, and kids cancer.

Ken

Cicero
09-08-2009, 09:12 AM
A never ending hole,created by those that shouldn't be breading.

Sweep
09-08-2009, 09:23 AM
A never ending hole,created by those that shouldn't be breading.

What? You would deny bread? Let them eat cake instead I suppose. :-)

I donate to St John, Salvation Army and I do it directly rather than a donation to a third party.

pcuser42
09-08-2009, 09:24 AM
If it's twenty bucks for the 0800 number, it may pay to keep clear of the 0900 number :horrified

The 0800 number is a credit card donation (that's why someone donated $13.37 :D).

My brother stayed up all night to watch it. I don't envy him.

Hitech
09-08-2009, 09:31 AM
This Telethon may be all well and good but tv3 should have left it for another year or two as job cuts loom at media works.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10589569

bk T
09-08-2009, 10:47 AM
I've already donated $80. Apparently all the stars and stuff are doing it for free?

"Apparently" they are doing it for free - I have my big '?'

From memory, in 1988, Telethon raised about $6 m and later on, ended up TVNZ gave them an invoice of $3 m for the coverage and staff overtime wages! Well, that was only part of the "expenses", though. The above figures might not be correct but shouldn't be too far out.

somebody
09-08-2009, 10:58 AM
"Apparently" they are doing it for free - I have my big '?'

From memory, in 1988, Telethon raised about $6 m and later on, ended up TVNZ gave them an invoice of $3 m for the coverage and staff overtime wages! Well, that was only part of the "expenses", though. The above figures might not be correct but shouldn't be too far out.

TV3 have already publicly announced that all production expenses have been paid for - i.e. they won't be taking a cut from the donations to cover costs.

bk T
09-08-2009, 11:45 AM
TV3 have already publicly announced that all production expenses have been paid for - i.e. they won't be taking a cut from the donations to cover costs.

TV3 may have announced that all "production expenses" have been paid for but don't forget that there are one thousand and one "other" expenses which may surface.

Whatever it is, I won't donate a single cent, not ever.

Jen
09-08-2009, 12:10 PM
Whatever it is, I won't donate a single cent, not ever.All charitable organisations have overheads - some more than others. Does this mean you never donate to any charity?

bk T
09-08-2009, 01:00 PM
All charitable organisations have overheads - some more than others. Does this mean you never donate to any charity?

No. not in terms of cash; unless I'm convinced that they have a proper Management in place.

R2x1
09-08-2009, 01:10 PM
My main charity is the IRD, and I fear their overheads are astronomical.

andrew93
09-08-2009, 01:22 PM
TV3 may have announced that all "production expenses" have been paid for but don't forget that there are one thousand and one "other" expenses which may surface.

Whatever it is, I won't donate a single cent, not ever.

You are way out of line. TV3 are paying for the production costs out of their own pocket - I know this for a fact. Sponsorships have also been secured to cover significant expenses. TV3 is not taking any 'cut' of any proceeds so I suggest you shut your pie hole unless you are in possession of facts. Nice work killjoy.....

Laura
09-08-2009, 01:27 PM
I'm amazed at the high quotient of "miserable old bxxxxxx" posting in this thread, trying to dissuade members from contributing to Telethon.

Cheezel's posting of the link was far more sensible than some of the links posted here, considering that hundreds of thousands on NZers are currently taking part in this.

No, I'm not - and have only occasionally tuned in - but quite apart from the cash raised, an enormous number of people are having a great deal of fun out there. The numbers could be compared with an All Black activity - but this is more entertaining...
Perhaps the difference is that Telethon is mainly entertaining the YOUNG. Enuff said..?
Irrespective of what you posters may or may not donate to - for whatever reasons of your own - this is teaching kids that giving to others with less is a normal part of life for many NZers.

Don't knock it just because you won't participate. You're making oldies like me look like a bunch of Miseryguts.

limepile
09-08-2009, 01:29 PM
I'm with R2x1 !!!

Westpac rescue, Rspca and Blind foundation get my spare cash....didn't it just come out that the phone pledges to some charity netted them about 8%, the rest went in "costs " ?

limepile
09-08-2009, 01:31 PM
"this is teaching kids that giving to others with less is a normal part of life for many NZers."

or is it teaching them that holding your hand out is ok ?

Laura
09-08-2009, 01:38 PM
I'm with R2x1 !!!

Westpac rescue, Rspca and Blind foundation get my spare cash....didn't it just come out that the phone pledges to some charity netted them about 8%, the rest went in "costs " ?

Yes, but that was a diabetes one - and probably one of the reasons there's been publicity that it's NOT the case for Telethon.

andrew93
09-08-2009, 01:46 PM
How very un-Kiwi. Kiwis have always backed the underdog, because we are usually the underdog. Now when it comes to our own, some of us would rather put the boot in? What a sick society we have been reduced to if this what we have become.

These children that go to school without breakfast, shoes or a raincoat didn't choose to be in that situation. And the parents who were recently made redundant didn't choose to be made redundant. And now we have a great bunch of people trying to make a difference and we have some very un-Kiwi people spouting their negativity......go pat yourselves on the back people, you really made a positive difference to those kids.

Be ashamed. Be very ashamed.

hueybot3000
09-08-2009, 02:08 PM
These children that go to school without breakfast, shoes or a raincoat didn't choose to be in that situation. And the parents who were recently made redundant didn't choose to be made redundant

Like someone else said, there is no excuse for that. A loaf of bread is all of 99cents. I think tv3 deserve some credit but with all the handouts already given from taxpayers i think its askin a bit much to ask for more.

bk T
09-08-2009, 02:18 PM
You are way out of line. TV3 are paying for the production costs out of their own pocket - I know this for a fact. Sponsorships have also been secured to cover significant expenses. TV3 is not taking any 'cut' of any proceeds so I suggest you shut your pie hole unless you are in possession of facts. Nice work killjoy.....

Well, well. typical kiwi attitude & up-bringing.

Laura
09-08-2009, 02:28 PM
Like someone else said, there is no excuse for that. A loaf of bread is all of 99cents. I think tv3 deserve some credit but with all the handouts already given from taxpayers i think its askin a bit much to ask for more.

Sure, in the best of all possible worlds, those "handouts" should cover everything.
But sadly, we don't live in the best of all possible worlds. Many still kids live with unsolved poverty problems.

And thanks, Andrew93, for a great post.
"Negativity" is the word I was looking for...

Laura
09-08-2009, 02:34 PM
Well, well. typical kiwi attitude & up-bringing.

A nice compliment for Andrew there.
As he said, NZers usually look after the underdog. We think that's OK.
Where was your upbringing?

mikebartnz
09-08-2009, 02:36 PM
These children that go to school without breakfast, shoes or a raincoat didn't choose to be in that situation.
Be ashamed. Be very ashamed.
They wont wear a raincoat even if they have one because it is too uncool.
Ashamed! Not me.
I will never forget years ago when we were going in to town we passed this street where this guy lived who had been bankrupt three times and was always on the bones of his arse. TV had just been introduced in the Wairarapa and guess who was one of the first in town to have one. My four or five year old brother said "I wish dad could go bankrupt so we could have a TV too."

plod
09-08-2009, 02:52 PM
I only have one dislike about this telethon and that is with the "Trillion Trust" who ran the fight for life promotions along with TV3.

Terry Porritt
09-08-2009, 03:08 PM
A never ending hole,created by those that shouldn't be breading.

Ah well, that's Rogernomics, and to boot, we have a whole generation now that has never know anything else. We are nearer now to Dickens time than Dickens was himself...:rolleyes:

""At this festive season of the year, Mr. Scrooge,"
said the gentleman, taking up a pen, "it is more than
usually desirable that we should make some slight
provision for the Poor and destitute, who suffer
greatly at the present time. Many thousands are in
want of common necessaries; hundreds of thousands
are in want of common comforts, sir."

"Are there no prisons?" asked Scrooge.

"Plenty of prisons," said the gentleman, laying down
the pen again.

"And the Union workhouses?" demanded Scrooge.
"Are they still in operation?"

"They are. Still," returned the gentleman, "I wish
I could say they were not."

"The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour,
then?" said Scrooge.

"Both very busy, sir."

"Oh! I was afraid, from what you said at first,
that something had occurred to stop them in their
useful course," said Scrooge. "I'm very glad to
hear it."

.................................................. .........

"In spite of the repeal of the Poor Laws and supposed closure of the workhouses from c1929/1930 - they continued in use until the establishment of the Welfare State in c1948 by the Atlee Labour Government of 1945-1950."

.................................................. ............

Ralph Wightman, BBC broadcaster and Dorset man who lived not far from us, said that farm hands getting on in age dreaded falling ill (usually crippled through arthritis) and not being able to work any more, as they would be thrown out of their tied cottages and would have to go into the workhouse.

That was in my lifetime.

It is really amazing that after all this time so many still depend upon charity.

Cicero
09-08-2009, 03:51 PM
Ah well, that's Rogernomics, and to boot, we have a whole generation now that has never know anything else. We are nearer now to Dickens time than Dickens was himself...:rolleyes:

""At this festive season of the year, Mr. Scrooge,"
said the gentleman, taking up a pen, "it is more than
usually desirable that we should make some slight
provision for the Poor and destitute, who suffer
greatly at the present time. Many thousands are in
want of common necessaries; hundreds of thousands
are in want of common comforts, sir."

"Are there no prisons?" asked Scrooge.

"Plenty of prisons," said the gentleman, laying down
the pen again.

"And the Union workhouses?" demanded Scrooge.
"Are they still in operation?"

"They are. Still," returned the gentleman, "I wish
I could say they were not."

"The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour,
then?" said Scrooge.

"Both very busy, sir."

"Oh! I was afraid, from what you said at first,
that something had occurred to stop them in their
useful course," said Scrooge. "I'm very glad to
hear it."

.................................................. .........

"In spite of the repeal of the Poor Laws and supposed closure of the workhouses from c1929/1930 - they continued in use until the establishment of the Welfare State in c1948 by the Atlee Labour Government of 1945-1950."

.................................................. ............

Ralph Wightman, BBC broadcaster and Dorset man who lived not far from us, said that farm hands getting on in age dreaded falling ill (usually crippled through arthritis) and not being able to work any more, as they would be thrown out of their tied cottages and would have to go into the workhouse.

That was in my lifetime.

It is really amazing that after all this time so many still depend upon charity.

You live in another world Ter,how you can blame Roger for the unproductive breading out of all proportion is beyond me.

mikebartnz
09-08-2009, 04:06 PM
You live in another world Ter,how you can blame Roger for the unproductive breading out of all proportion is beyond me.
You might not be able to blame that failed pig farmer for that but there are plenty of other things you can blame him for.

andrew93
09-08-2009, 04:36 PM
Well, well. typical kiwi attitude & up-bringing.

And something I am proud of.

I invite you to back up your words with facts. You stated TVNZ presented an invoice for $3m after raising $6m in a previous Telethon. Either keep displaying your ignorance, or show us some facts.......

Cicero
09-08-2009, 04:57 PM
You might not be able to blame that failed pig farmer for that but there are plenty of other things you can blame him for.

I think we should try to keep this thread free of commo talk.

Terry Porritt
09-08-2009, 05:00 PM
You live in another world Ter,how you can blame Roger for the unproductive breading out of all proportion is beyond me.

Did I say that then ? No I didn't, not directly, but as has always been the case, the right blame the poor for being poor.

You need to provide evidence for "the unproductive breading (sic) out of all proportion".

I mean just look at Jim Bolger with something like nine kids, whoops, ok you may have proven your case :D

Then there was Jenny, she gave out the hard word to the Welfare Dept not to tell beneficiaries about entitlements unless they asked.
She was also the one to turn Superannuitants into beneficiaries, and discouraged the word "entitlement".

Of course nothing is ever black or white, and there will always be some justification found to blame the poor for their predicament.

The workhouses were intended to be a deterrent to the poor.

http://www.wolverhamptonhistory.org.uk/work/the_workhouse/index.html?sid=6f3783d9df077b05e9cd5e04c1bda02d

I am sure with some Kiwi ingenuity there would be sufficient bits and pieces in the local scrap yard to construct area treadmills, and put the poor to work generating power during a dry season :banana

Cicero
09-08-2009, 05:31 PM
Did I say that then ? No I didn't, not directly, but as has always been the case, the right blame the poor for being poor.

You need to provide evidence for "the unproductive breading (sic) out of all proportion".

I mean just look at Jim Bolger with something like nine kids, whoops, OK you may have proven your case :D

Then there was Jenny, she gave out the hard word to the Welfare Dept not to tell beneficiaries about entitlements unless they asked.
She was also the one to turn Superannuitants into beneficiaries, and discouraged the word "entitlement".

Of course nothing is ever black or white, and there will always be some justification found to blame the poor for their predicament.

The workhouses were intended to be a deterrent to the poor.

http://www.wolverhamptonhistory.org.uk/work/the_workhouse/index.html?sid=6f3783d9df077b05e9cd5e04c1bda02d

I am sure with some Kiwi ingenuity there would be sufficient bits and pieces in the local scrap yard to construct area treadmills, and put the poor to work generating power during a dry season :banana
Bolger and Jenny were principle free,so You can't call them true right.

Leaving those out that can't help themselves,which we all would help,I am talking pro. poor and you can't tell me they are not that other than by choice.

Anybody with half a brain can earn an honest living if they so desire,you and your ilk ( I mean that in the nicest possible way)keep these people in their place by saying to them,they are owed a living.

Chilling_Silence
09-08-2009, 05:43 PM
What amazes me the most, they showed a family on TV3 who was on the receiving end of support from the KidsCan trust right. The family was supposedly "poor" after having only $300 a week in their pocket AFTER rent has been paid. Seriously, if thats poor, bring that on! I've lived for almost a year now on far less than that BEFORE I've paid rent.
Then you see this same family with 4 kids and they have Sanitarium Ricies and some other expensive breakfast cereals etc ... They even give their kids money to buy lunch at school, everybody knows damn well you can buy a loaf of bread for under $2, whack some of last nights dinner such as Chicken, Ham, maybe some Marmite & Chips (Pams no doubt, not the expensive ETA / Bluebird), chuck in some fruit, and the kids will live comfortably.

What most of the families need is to go on a budgeting course, not "help" with provision of more money, what a freaking waste!
Not to mention those receiving benefits shouldn't be allowed near anywhere such as the TAB, or to be able to buy smokes etc.

AFAIK in Aus if somebody is on the dole, they must be doing a certain amount of community service each week whilst looking for a job, yes? Why the hell don't we have that here? What a bloody marvelous idea!!

If I had $300 in my pocket after paying the rent each week, I'd live like a freaking king! My wife wouldn't even have to work!! We could both stay home all day and just enjoy life together!

robbyp
09-08-2009, 05:50 PM
What amazes me the most, they showed a family on TV3 who was on the receiving end of support from the KidsCan trust right. The family was supposedly "poor" after having only $300 a week in their pocket AFTER rent has been paid. Seriously, if thats poor, bring that on! I've lived for almost a year now on far less than that BEFORE I've paid rent.
Then you see this same family with 4 kids and they have Sanitarium Ricies and some other expensive breakfast cereals etc ... They even give their kids money to buy lunch at school, everybody knows damn well you can buy a loaf of bread for under $2, whack some of last nights dinner such as Chicken, Ham, maybe some Marmite & Chips (Pams no doubt, not the expensive ETA / Bluebird), chuck in some fruit, and the kids will live comfortably.

What most of the families need is to go on a budgeting course, not "help" with provision of more money, what a freaking waste!
Not to mention those receiving benefits shouldn't be allowed near anywhere such as the TAB, or to be able to buy smokes etc.

AFAIK in Aus if somebody is on the dole, they must be doing a certain amount of community service each week whilst looking for a job, yes? Why the hell don't we have that here? What a bloody marvelous idea!!

If I had $300 in my pocket after paying the rent each week, I'd live like a freaking king! My wife wouldn't even have to work!! We could both stay home all day and just enjoy life together!

It is often the people who most need the support, that never end up getting the charity money. The current amount the Telethon is at is pretty poor, which could be the result of the type of charity, as it is very difficult for people to relate to it. Compared to past telethons and with inflation, they should have made a lot more money, but maybe it is also the fact that telethons should remain in the 20th century.

We used to have a work for dole system, by Labour dropped it when they got it. Pehaps people should be given the option to either work for dole, or the dole is a loan which they have to pay back.

Terry Porritt
09-08-2009, 06:22 PM
Bolger and Jenny were principle free,so You can't call them true right.

Leaving those out that can't help themselves,which we all would help,I am talking pro. poor and you can't tell me they are not that other than by choice.

Anybody with half a brain can earn an honest living if they so desire,you and your ilk ( I mean that in the nicest possible way)keep these people in their place by saying to them,they are owed a living.

I wouldn't go as far as that, that is, saying the poor are owed a living.

It's a question of striking a balance between charity and big stick.

In many respects though you are right. Just looking around shows that the population seems to be genetically breeding thickies in increasing numbers........ it's something to do with the Gaia effect.

How some of these people who seem to have no idea can be educated though is a tough nut to crack.

Chill is also right, as regards feeding a family. Though just look at the price of meat and dairy, it's rather obscene.
This business of feeding kids sugary cereals gets to me.

You can get a bag of Home Brand rolled oats for a couple of dollars or so, give them porridge, far more wholesome :) It has to be good, I have it every day :rolleyes:

When we were poor, :banana ie raising a family on one apprentice wage, there were all sorts of cheap food dodges, like going down the market to buy cracked eggs, and get a big bag of cauliflower leaves for nothing, a weeks greens.

Cicero
09-08-2009, 06:28 PM
I wouldn't go as far as that, that is, saying the poor are owed a living.

It's a question of striking a balance between charity and big stick.

In many respects though you are right. Just looking around shows that the population seems to be genetically breeding thickies in increasing numbers........ it's something to do with the Gaia effect.

How some of these people who seem to have no idea can be educated though is a tough nut to crack.

Chill is also right, as regards feeding a family. Though just look at the price of meat and dairy, it's rather obscene.
This business of feeding kids sugary cereals gets to me.
Keep trying Ter,you may end up being consistant.

You don't need to educated to pump petrol,I know a chap who did that in Otaki and ended up owning garage.

You can get a bag of Home Brand rolled oats for a couple of dollars or so, give them porridge, far more wholesome :) It has to be good, I have it every day :rolleyes:

When we were poor, :banana ie raising a family on one apprentice wage, there were all sorts of cheap food dodges, like going down the market to buy cracked eggs, and get a big bag of cauliflower leaves for nothing, a weeks greens.

Keep trying Ter,you may end up being consistant.

You don't need to be educated to pump petrol,I know a chap who did that in Otaki and ended up owning garage.

beeswax34
09-08-2009, 06:50 PM
How very un-Kiwi. Kiwis have always backed the underdog, because we are usually the underdog. Now when it comes to our own, some of us would rather put the boot in? What a sick society we have been reduced to if this what we have become.

These children that go to school without breakfast, shoes or a raincoat didn't choose to be in that situation. And the parents who were recently made redundant didn't choose to be made redundant. And now we have a great bunch of people trying to make a difference and we have some very un-Kiwi people spouting their negativity......go pat yourselves on the back people, you really made a positive difference to those kids.

Be ashamed. Be very ashamed.

Dude, that's pretty BS. This isn't about people who have been made redundant and can't afford the basics of life- WINZ will step in there.

This is about families who don't care about where their money goes or if their kids are brought up properly and have a decent upbringing. They will happily spend money on alcohol, drugs and cigarettes and fancy cars but not for stuff they need.

So before you go on a sanctimonious rant about non-Kiwi's (whoops, too late for you I guess), think about it for a second and the fact that we already pay astronomical taxes to cover stuff like this.

I bet none of those people work 40-60 hours a week doing 2 or more jobs to feed and house their families, they just want a handout for nothing all the time.

Terry Porritt
09-08-2009, 06:52 PM
Keep trying Ter,you may end up being consistant.

You don't need to be educated to pump petrol,I know a chap who did that in Otaki and ended up owning garage.

Oh, it is difficult to be consistent in these matters, it's called "flexibility" a word beloved of the right when applied to the workforce of chattering masses :lol:

Cicero
09-08-2009, 07:12 PM
Oh, it is difficult to be consistent in these matters, it's called "flexibility" a word beloved of the right when applied to the workforce of chattering masses :lol:

The true right have a philosophy,ensuring consistency,foreign to you lefties.:)

Chilling_Silence
09-08-2009, 07:25 PM
It is often the people who most need the support, that never end up getting the charity money.
My sentiments exactly!


Pehaps people should be given the option to either work for dole, or the dole is a loan which they have to pay back.

+1 for that idea!

Cicero
09-08-2009, 07:32 PM
We used to have a work for dole system, by Labour dropped it when they got it. Perhaps people should be given the option to either work for dole, or the dole is a loan which they have to pay back.

The likes of Sue Bradford and Terry think it is undignified that people should be asked to work for the dole.
From whence that idea comes is totally beyond this lad.

Hitech
09-08-2009, 07:33 PM
The total is now $1,944 557 and now it's finished there is still more to come good on you tv3 for bringing nz together.

Terry Porritt
09-08-2009, 08:14 PM
The likes of Sue Bradford and Terry think it is undignified that people should be asked to work for the dole.
From whence that idea comes is totally beyond this lad.

At first sight 'work for the dole' sounds good, and is satisfying for those who say the unemployed should get off their backsides, etc.

But the scheme under National in the 90s was not very successful, and they suppressed a report before the election, which said it wasn't working as intended.
http://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/suppressed+report+shows+work---dole+scheme+failing

The big problem is finding proper work without taking away jobs from people already in work.

Also a lot depends upon age, it's ok maybe for the young who would be on a low wage anyway, and such schemes could provide experience and work skills.

To ask an adult to do a manual job like er, say drainlaying, when the employed bloke next to him doing the same job is getting paid 2 or 3 times more for the same work, would not be very edifying for the soul :illogical

The PEP (Project Employment Programme) schemes under the Muldoon National government were said to be quite successful and a lot of good 'community' work was done, eg cutting and grading tracks in the Tararuas, and local reserves comes to mind among others.

Our mutual friend Roger scrapped these schemes.

somebody
09-08-2009, 08:45 PM
To ask an adult to do a manual job like er, say drainlaying, when the employed bloke next to him doing the same job is getting paid 2 or 3 times more for the same work, would not be very edifying for the soul :illogical


How does an adult working as a drainlayer who sees someone who is doing 0% of the work, and being paid 80% of their salary, feel?

Terry Porritt
09-08-2009, 09:24 PM
How does an adult working as a drainlayer who sees someone who is doing 0% of the work, and being paid 80% of their salary, feel?

That makes no sense at all. You can do better than that. Why should you assume someone who is set a job they are capable of doing would do 0% work ? I said doing the same work.

andrew93
09-08-2009, 09:31 PM
Dude, that's pretty BS. This isn't about people who have been made redundant and can't afford the basics of life- WINZ will step in there.

This is about families who don't care about where their money goes or if their kids are brought up properly and have a decent upbringing. They will happily spend money on alcohol, drugs and cigarettes and fancy cars but not for stuff they need.

So before you go on a sanctimonious rant about non-Kiwi's (whoops, too late for you I guess), think about it for a second and the fact that we already pay astronomical taxes to cover stuff like this.

I bet none of those people work 40-60 hours a week doing 2 or more jobs to feed and house their families, they just want a handout for nothing all the time.

You obviously have no experience or exposure to this sort of thing. It is real and it is happening around us. However, if it makes you feel better to sit back and criticise those trying to make a difference then go ahead.

Do you know anyone who has been made redundant? Do you know people who have been on the benefit for longer than they haven't for the past 5 years, not through choice? Do you know people who are genuinely trying but simply cannot make ends meet? Do you know anyone made redundant the day before they started their new job? Do you know anyone in the front line having to deal with unfed barefoot children being dropped off at school before sunrise because the folks are off to work? Do you even know the criteria for claiming the redundancy benefit?

Like I said, it is real and a lot of people are hurting right now. Most often this is not through choice. How this somehow translates into an argument that we shouldn't be giving some kids a chance is simply beyond me. The point still stands that the kids have no choice in this, but if you want to be uncharitable then who am I to disagree with your choices?

Just wait for the day when you don't have a choice. Hopefully Kiwis will be as charitable towards you as they have been to others. Hopefully you won't be met with sweeping statements like "happily spend money on alcohol, drugs and cigarettes and fancy cars" and "I bet none of those people work 40-60 hours a week". Good luck to you!

somebody
09-08-2009, 09:32 PM
That makes no sense at all. You can do better than that. Why should you assume someone who is set a job they are capable of doing would do 0% work ? I said doing the same work.

Person A - the drainlayer, working hard to feed his family.
Person B - a welfare recipient, not working, paid equivalent of 80% of Person A's wages.

If we want to talk about the soul, then let's look at Person A's, and how they feel about someone being given for doing nothing, while they work long hours in a physical job to feed their family.

Terry Porritt
09-08-2009, 09:54 PM
Person A - the drainlayer, working hard to feed his family.
Person B - a welfare recipient, not working, paid equivalent of 80% of Person A's wages.

If we want to talk about the soul, then let's look at Person A's, and how they feel about someone being given for doing nothing, while they work long hours in a physical job to feed their family.

:) We are talking at cross-purposes, I was refering to working for the dole, comparing two blokes doing exactly the same job, one getting full rate, one getting the dole.

Comparing how a worker feels about someone getting the dole for no work is a different issue.

Anyway just think back to around 1991 when there was an average of 10% unemployment, 19% of the young, about 25-30% of Maori/Pacific Islanders.

http://www.socialreport.msd.govt.nz/2004/paid-work/unemployment.html

It is not an easy time being unemployed, though no doubt there will be those that make a profession of it.

Sue Bradford was one of those, professionally unemployed one might say !

somebody
09-08-2009, 10:06 PM
:) We are talking at cross-purposes, I was refering to working for the dole, comparing two blokes doing exactly the same job, one getting full rate, one getting the dole.

Comparing how a worker feels about someone getting the dole for no work is a different issue.


The point I was trying to make (and didn't make very well - it's been a long day) was that as a society, we are constantly worrying about how people feel - the problem is, we're worrying about the wrong people.

We should stop worrying about how people who are receiving taxpayer handouts feel, and worry about the taxpayer who's working hard, and paying the taxes that support our welfare system. So what if the welfare recipient doing drain laying work feels undervalued - surely it's better have them feel undervalued, than have the hard working taxpayer feel like they are being ripped off, and discouraged from working hard.

johcar
09-08-2009, 10:08 PM
<snip>

Sue Bradford was one of those, professionally unemployed one might say !

With her track record thus far in Parliament, I would prefer to still be paying her the dole than the outrageous amount she gets for being an interfering busybody with bugger-all common sense!!!

EDIT: Just remembered she lost her seat last time. How sad!

Marnie
09-08-2009, 10:16 PM
Interesting reactions on this thread.

I donated, mostly because I don't think children should suffer because of the parents they never got to choose.

We can all reason that many could do with parental training and management skills and you would be right, but that is not the fault of the children. Years ago I worked as a voluntary budget advisor and saw things that made me shake my head in disbelief. Some had no idea how to manage. Yes, I'm happy to say we had some success stories.

At least we also got to see some New Zealand talent we probably wouldn't have otherwise ever got to see on our screens.

somebody
09-08-2009, 10:21 PM
Years ago I worked as a voluntary budget advisor and saw things that made me shake my head in disbelief. Some had no idea how to manage. Yes, I'm happy to say we had some success stories.

Wow - that's great to hear. Hopefully there are more people out there providing those sort of services (surely an organisation like WINZ employs people to offer budgetary advice??).

Sweep
09-08-2009, 11:34 PM
Wow - that's great to hear. Hopefully there are more people out there providing those sort of services (surely an organisation like WINZ employs people to offer budgetary advice??).

WINZ does not actively get employment for those that are seeking employment. I went into WINZ two weeks ago to update my Gold card and found the only notices up for employment were from Seek.

WINZ may help you to get retrained in the event I needed to know how to dig a ditch. Usually I use a spade but I may need a tracked vehicle license in case an employer needs a faster ditch than what I could dig by hand.
But then you would need to know how to drive the vehicle and be efficient doing the same.

WINZ would refer you to other places like the citizens advice bureau for budgeting skills. Plunket for advice on rearing children except that is not Gov't funded. St Johns, Salvation Army, various foundations like Cancer research, Heart Foundation etc are funded only by donation or Lottery Grants or the proceeds from Poker machines.

So I have to ask what does Central Government supply in the way of services and what does local Government do for you as a person or family or whanua for what it costs the taxpayer in general. I see openings of whatever and the Maori have to jump in and do a powhiri or a taniwha removal all of which cost the taxpayer including me. I worked since I was 15 years old. The last 13 years I worked for the same employer and finished there in Dec 2008. I get superannuation now and pay tax on that as well. I wonder what it cost the taxpayers for John Key to attend Telethon on his 48th birthday and how much he donated out of his own pocket.

When GST 12.5% was invented it was supposed to reduce sales tax because we had same at one time.

Schools just do the curriculum as it stands or as it changes from time to time. The goal posts move just as I drop kick.

Schools should be teaching life skills such as cooking, woodwork, parenting, book keeping, english, maths, history, geography and social studies. More importantly, with newer technology, today the people need to be taught how to research and what questions to ask.

Other questions I have for all of you that may be bothered to reply.

How many of you voted in the November 2008 general election?

How many of you have voted in your local council elections last time they had one?

How many of you have voted in the revent referendum which closes on the 21st Aug 2009?

To add another 2 cents worth we have a large number of members who have joined PressF1 but we only have a small percentage who post on a regular basis.

Hitech
09-08-2009, 11:49 PM
This thread has gone way off topic the thread says telethon not WINZ and moan.

R2x1
10-08-2009, 12:07 AM
With her track record thus far in Parliament, I would prefer to still be paying her the dole than the outrageous amount she gets for being an interfering busybody with bugger-all common sense!!!

EDIT: Just remembered she lost her seat last time. How sad!
That is a H_U_G_E loss - (the woman is a total ass) ;)

Sweep
10-08-2009, 12:26 AM
This thread has gone way off topic the thread says telethon not WINZ and moan.

Thank you for you very kind comment for which I thank you.

Had you noticed that this is PressF1 chat which is for off topic threads.

Personally I don't care about donating which is what a telethon is all about. I care about donating directly to a charity directly out of my pocket with any disposible income I have left after the Government takes the various taxes that we all pay.

A telethon hopefully moves you to donate some money to a charity or charities or not as the case may be. Of course, naturally, you were entertained and will cough up convertible assets you own to the charity of your choice.

Recently I worked for the last month deliverying our local newspaper and flyers. This means that I have to walk a few blocks to do this. The paper has to be delivered on a Wednesday and there is no choice on what day I deliver, rain, hail or shine. I also get fliers which I can deliver either Sat or Sun.

After doing this for one month I received $69.71cents after withholding tax. So I am out twice a week for about two hours and this does not include folding time and being aware of what letter boxes do not want junk mail etc.

And of course I have left over income which I can then TXT to a charity.

Sweep
10-08-2009, 12:30 AM
This thread has gone way off topic the thread says telethon not WINZ and moan.

Have you not read all the thread? It is about donations and what you are prepared to donate. Donations are about disposable income and what you personally can afford.

R2x1
10-08-2009, 12:44 AM
Telethons are about mass hysteria. Probably written up in Hansard.

Sweep
10-08-2009, 12:46 AM
This thread has gone way off topic the thread says telethon not WINZ and moan.

May I ask how off topic did this thread get? You started this one but did not reply during other replies.

http://pressf1.co.nz/showthread.php?t=101832

rob_on_guitar
10-08-2009, 04:10 AM
I dont see why they expect cash in a recession. Poor kids will still be poor kids well after it. Hand outs isn't going to help. Maybe fundraising for school upgrades and equipment, scholarships (sp? yes I should have done better at school lol), hospitals. And bullets for parents who neglect their kids yet not the bottle or drugs.

Terry Porritt
10-08-2009, 09:16 AM
Maybe it is time for the government to think about restoring school milk, and to introduce school dinners, as we had in the UK for yonks.
This would go a long way towards assisting struggling families.

I used to have school dinners for a while, it cost from memory 2/6d a week in 1946, but "poor" children, children say whose fathers had been killed in the war got free school meals.

In the UK school meals goes back to the the late 1800s as a charitable function, but, quoting:

"School meal provision was made compulsory, by the 1944 Education Act, which made it a statutory duty rather than optional entitlement for local authorities. This was part of the wide political shift of the 1940s under Labour that involved the creation of the welfare state and the NHS."

There were central kitchens that cooked in bulk and distributed to local schools, and we had kitchen staff working in a canteen attached to the school hall.

Then along came New Right Thatchernomics :)
"These provisions were removed by the 1980 Education Act of Margaret Thatcher's government."

http://www.corporatewatch.org.uk/?lid=2045

Cicero
10-08-2009, 09:27 AM
Maybe it is time for the government to think about restoring school milk, and to introduce school dinners, as we had in the UK for yonks.
This would go a long way towards assisting struggling families.

I used to have school dinners for a while, it cost from memory 2/6d a week in 1946, but "poor" children, children say whose fathers had been killed in the war got free school meals.

In the UK school meals goes back to the the late 1800s as a charitable function, but, quoting:

"School meal provision was made compulsory, by the 1944 Education Act, which made it a statutory duty rather than optional entitlement for local authorities. This was part of the wide political shift of the 1940s under Labour that involved the creation of the welfare state and the NHS."

There were central kitchens that cooked in bulk and distributed to local schools, and we had kitchen staff working in a canteen attached to the school hall.

Then along came New Right Thatchernomics :)
"These provisions were removed by the 1980 Education Act of Margaret Thatcher's government."

http://www.corporatewatch.org.uk/?lid=2045
Thats a good idea,feed these people and encourage them to breed even more.:horrified

Terry Porritt
10-08-2009, 11:46 AM
Thats a good idea,feed these people and encourage them to breed even more.:horrified

Ah, but the trick would be to secrete sterility potion into the custard. Then in due course the population would come down to a more manageable level.

It would kill two birds with one stone, reduce the peasant classes and the overall population, which would be good for the environment.

Cicero
10-08-2009, 12:06 PM
Ah, but the trick would be to secrete sterility potion into the custard. Then in due course the population would come down to a more manageable level.

It would kill two birds with one stone, reduce the peasant classes and the overall population, which would be good for the environment.

Brilliant Terry.

pctek
10-08-2009, 12:56 PM
feed these people and encourage them to breed even more.:horrified

What people?

Anyone can become poor.
I had a friend who worked as a programmer. Earned loads and loads. Got married, had the huge wedding and honeymoon, bought a house, had a baby then medical disaster struck.
Husband ran away, new boss decided she was "unreliable" and fired her, and next thing she was down at WINZ applying for assistance. Had to sell the house and move back in with her dad.

If I had suggested such a thing a couple of years before, she would have laughed at me.
**** happens. And often when you least expect it.

somebody
10-08-2009, 01:02 PM
What people?

Anyone can become poor.
I had a friend who worked as a programmer. Earned loads and loads. Got married, had the huge wedding and honeymoon, bought a house, had a baby then medical disaster struck.
Husband ran away, new boss decided she was "unreliable" and fired her, and next thing she was down at WINZ applying for assistance. Had to sell the house and move back in with her dad.

If I had suggested such a thing a couple of years before, she would have laughed at me.
**** happens. And often when you least expect it.

Yup - that's why the welfare system is there to be a safety net. I don't think anybody here would object to someone receiving assistance when unforeseen circumstances like that pop up, or if someone is made redundant.

The anti-welfare sentiment here is in regards to those who treat it as a career choice, rather than a temporary means to get by until they can find another job.

Cicero
10-08-2009, 01:42 PM
What people?

Anyone can become poor.
I had a friend who worked as a programmer. Earned loads and loads. Got married, had the huge wedding and honeymoon, bought a house, had a baby then medical disaster struck.
Husband ran away, new boss decided she was "unreliable" and fired her, and next thing she was down at WINZ applying for assistance. Had to sell the house and move back in with her dad.

If I had suggested such a thing a couple of years before, she would have laughed at me.
**** happens. And often when you least expect it.

And she is precisely the type of person that should be helped,we are talking pro loafers here,not the likes of your pal.

Chilling_Silence
10-08-2009, 03:43 PM
+1, agree with Cicero's last statement :)

robbyp
10-08-2009, 04:21 PM
+1, agree with Cicero's last statement :)

+1

NZ has a full welfare backup, so ideally there should be no need for these types of charities anyway. I don't object to paying taxes, to pay for this, as it is like an insurance policy. I do however object paying taxes for paying for MPs to have free sky TV, personal maids to do their washing , free taxis and travel etc, unless it is part of their work. Any personal usage should come out of their wages.

Cicero
10-08-2009, 04:53 PM
+1

NZ has a full welfare backup, so ideally there should be no need for these types of charities anyway. I don't object to paying taxes, to pay for this, as it is like an insurance policy. I do however object paying taxes for paying for MPs to have free sky TV, personal maids to do their washing , free taxis and travel etc, unless it is part of their work. Any personal usage should come out of their wages.

And then to add insult to injury,they get a 90% travel discount for the rest of their lives and god only knows what else.

somebody
10-08-2009, 05:08 PM
And then to add insult to injury,they get a 90% travel discount for the rest of their lives and god only knows what else.

That was abolished some time ago - it's only "grandparented" in for people who were eligible before the rules were changed. Roger Douglas happens to be one of the people who were around when the scheme was in force, and therefore could still keep it.

In any case, government ministers claiming perks is less of a worry since they're actually doing some work - people who sit around all day doing nothing, and think it's their god given right to live off the dole are the ones that bug me the most.

mikebartnz
12-08-2009, 09:40 PM
KidsCan Charitable Trust (http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv/2742223/Telethon-charitys-costs-queried) last year spent less than 20 per cent of the money it raised on its programmes for disadvantaged children.

hueybot3000
12-08-2009, 09:47 PM
thats disgusting, glad i didnt give them money then

Chilling_Silence
13-08-2009, 10:23 AM
That's sick ... all the more reason why I'm of the mindset we should donate to something else like 3rd world hunger, or cancer research perhaps, or the teenage support hotline, stuff which has been around for a while now ...

GoodHour
13-08-2009, 09:05 PM
Is it possible they receive most of their donations in the form of goods (food) and those don't show up on their books?

somebody
13-08-2009, 09:25 PM
Is it possible they receive most of their donations in the form of goods (food) and those don't show up on their books?

Quite possible.

On another note it seems sometimes it's hard to give food away for free. A family member works for a large NZ food manufacturer. A few years ago they had some excess tinned goods from an export order, and offered to give it (free) to the local food bank hoping it would be put to good use. The food bank turned around and said they would only accept it if they split the amount up and gave x cans to this branch, x cans to another branch and so on. The product ended up being dumped, since the company didn't have the time or resources to organise shipping the goods to several branches - if the food bank had sent someone down with a trailer, they would have happily forklifted pallets onto it for them. A similar situation happened with an organisation which had several bins (totalling several of tonnes) of potatoes and onions they wanted to give away. Again, the food bank turned them down, so it was dumped. Not surprisingly, both of these organisations have given up trying to donate goods - they just dump them now - which is a real waste of perfectly good food.