PDA

View Full Version : IT quals?



rob_on_guitar
30-07-2009, 02:40 PM
Just hanging out with our IT dept. Quite weird I thought how I'd guess 75% of them had no quals but just got the job through a mate or was just at the right place at the right time.
They said now you pretty much have to have certs and papers to even apply for an IT job.

You guys find this now?

I'd imagine it would create a clash of ways things are done between new school and old school point of views....

SolMiester
30-07-2009, 02:46 PM
Nah, experience over paper qual any day!....

nofam
30-07-2009, 02:58 PM
Nah, experience over paper qual any day!....

Bang on - I'd hire a keen young fella like Blam ANY DAY over a crusty old guy with an out-of-date MSCE.

Having said that, experience and quals are quite important for enterprise stuff. . . . there's a world of difference between setting up your Nan's WLAN and architecting a corporate LAN with several subnets etc!! ;)

wainuitech
30-07-2009, 02:59 PM
Nah, experience over paper qual any day!.... Agree - I know a few techs around the place, and most of them have no Qual's (a couple do) BUT if I were ever needed to hire people, I wouldn't hesitate if those guys came calling - they know their stuff.

While its is good to have Quals - having A bit of paper that says you can do stuff, doesn't mean in real life you can. Many times "things that happen" are not taught.

Chilling_Silence
30-07-2009, 03:07 PM
Agreed. It's one thing to study for an exam when you know what the questions will be, but when real-life comes knocking with unexpected situations that's when you need to be good at problem solving, not good at memorizing required answers!

BigBadBob
30-07-2009, 03:23 PM
Bang on - I'd hire a keen young fella like Blam ANY DAY over a crusty old guy with an out-of-date MSCE.


True but how many keen young fellas have experience with MS-DOS, Xenix, OS2, Windows 3.1, NT or even Win 95 if it comes to that. Those early OS's and associated technology gave me some valuable hands-on grounding in the IT game.

chiefnz
30-07-2009, 03:25 PM
Experience, in my opinion will alsways be looked upon favourably by anu proscpective employer... whilsts quals are good to have experience is something that can never be taught.

We had a young fulla working for us a few months ago, graduated with a degree in comp science... could barely tell the difference between a capacitor and a jumper on a mobo?

It was hard work getting him on the right track. but he did in the end.

nofam
30-07-2009, 03:29 PM
True but how many keen young fellas have experience with MS-DOS, Xenix, OS2, Windows 3.1, NT or even Win 95 if it comes to that. Those early OS's and associated technology gave me some valuable hands-on grounding in the IT game.

Fair point; there's a lot to be said for having a grounding in older O/S's, especially when you get into Unix/Linux, as being comfy at a CLI is a big help.

But there's also a lot of older guys in the game that were great on Mainframes etc, and now get lost with virtualization, network security, app configuration, spyware removal etc.

The problem is that the sands are shifting so quickly in IT, which is why being open to 're-tooling' yourself is so important.

somebody
30-07-2009, 03:37 PM
The problem is that the sands are shifting so quickly in IT, which is why being open to 're-tooling' yourself is so important.

It's also where PressF1 comes in - ongoing discussion here with peers is very useful for picking up useful information from the community.

nofam
30-07-2009, 03:54 PM
It's also where PressF1 comes in - ongoing discussion here with peers is very useful for picking up useful information from the community.

Damn right - you guys have always been here to help; as I'm a team of 1, looking after 4 servers and over 100 PC's it's great to have the salty crew here at PF1 to bounce ideas off of and get advice from!!!

:thumbs:

Barnabas
30-07-2009, 04:33 PM
Quals can often be the difference between getting an interview and not...esp if a recruitment company is being used. When working in the UK if found that a lot of jobs advertised through recruitment companies required a MSSA or E just to get an interview. Most of them didnt even know what it was but figured if you had it then you must know something (not true). Guess they hadnt heard of Must Consult Someone Else.
Still, it cant hurt you to have them. If a company has to pick between 2 candidates with identical or similar experience and 1 of them has qualifications and the other doesnt then you know who they are going to pick.

Just my 2 cents.

B.

wainuitech
30-07-2009, 04:49 PM
If a company has to pick between 2 candidates with identical or similar experience and 1 of them has qualifications and the other doesnt then you know who they are going to pick. Not always - it also depends on what the people are like. (Personality)

If the person with the Quals comes across as a "know all - and I cant be told anything" they may not get the job over someone who shows they are willing to learn more, or get on with others.

I know of a few people who got jobs because they knew how to talk to people and had experience over people with Quals. ( not just in IT)

pctek
30-07-2009, 05:55 PM
Not always - it also depends on what the people are like. (Personality)



Yes.
The younger one will get the job.
Well, depends, not if its a senior specialist role perhaps.

But even say 10 years ago, I went for a job at Datacom, just support, and the snotty prick told me I was too old and therefore incapable of learning anymore.

gary67
30-07-2009, 05:57 PM
I have been to interviews alongside someone with the same qual as me and because I was just 40 I didn't get it the twenty something did

somebody
30-07-2009, 06:01 PM
Yes.
The younger one will get the job.
Well, depends, not if its a senior specialist role perhaps.

But even say 10 years ago, I went for a job at Datacom, just support, and the snotty prick told me I was too old and therefore incapable of learning anymore.

You're also more expensive to hire, since you're older and more experienced.

rob_on_guitar
30-07-2009, 06:20 PM
Quite a good read guys, anybody recently had to interview anyone or got interviewed for a job?

Nomad
30-07-2009, 06:53 PM
Yup it is not just skills or on paper.

It is how you communicated yourself, are you a good fit in the org, etc etc. A person who is too senior may not be ideal cos they may be a former manager and used to giving orders than doing it, they may have their own ways and be unflexible etc etc.

If you are hiring a person for a entry/std position I would think that they ideally want a younger person with some qualifications not heaps and some skills that they have done it and is familiar with it ... and most impt a good fit to the org and to other workers.

Blam
30-07-2009, 08:42 PM
Personally I reckon experience and being motivated to learn new things on the job.

The certs are just to prove to yourself and to employers/customers what you know.

If you can prove that you know that stuff without the certs then you don't really need them do you:p

The papers can further "strenghten" your knowledge though..

Blam

beeswax34
30-07-2009, 10:45 PM
Quite a good read guys, anybody recently had to interview anyone or got interviewed for a job?

I had 4 interviews in March but they were all for Accounting jobs so I'm not sure how relevant it is...

nofam
31-07-2009, 08:43 AM
Quite a good read guys, anybody recently had to interview anyone or got interviewed for a job?

Had a pretty hardcore interview a few months back for a senior position; got grilled by a panel of 3 for over an hour, and they only wanted demonstrated experience in dealing with certain issues and scenarios, not my thoughts on what I may or may not do etc. That was the hardest interview I've ever had.

And there seems to be a trend emerging here in some sectors, as there is overseas, where employers are more prepared to fore-go qualifications and even experience for attitude & aptitude; the assumption being that if you have the right attitude (towards yourself, your job, and others) you can be taught just about anything, whereas if you have the skillset needed, but fail epically at lifeskills, you're not going to succeed in a modern company.