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Knownothing
16-07-2009, 05:35 AM
What's the New Zealand government trying to do now with getting our ISP to check on what we are downloading? E.g. movies and/or songs.
If songs are paid for online then they are legit.
How will the ISP know that the song has been paid for?
If it is said that the downloaded movies/songs are free they are mistaken as in this country we pay for data that we download. E.g. having a 5GB cap for $xx.

If the New Zealand government is allowed to do this then where will it end?

What are others thoughts please?

gary67
16-07-2009, 06:43 AM
I have been downloading a few linux distro's lately and they are generally the same size as a movie download so if this goes through and became law I could be penalised for doing something legal

wainuitech
16-07-2009, 08:03 AM
Its easy for the ISP's to see whats being download - They can generally see where the packets of data are coming from and going to, along with their content , so if you were downloading music, legally, like Itunes, no worries, if you were downloading Linux or any thing else thats free - same applies.

If they "had" to intercept data as a person may be suspected of pirating, they have the means, ISP's keep history of every place you go in the logs.

What becomes more harder is when the packets of info are encrypted.

Example Close to home: The Mods here can see a persons IP address.

pctek
16-07-2009, 08:50 AM
If you aren't guilty of anything dodgy then it becomes boring topic. I find it boring and don't care.

limepile
16-07-2009, 06:57 PM
If all I'm allowed to do is check my mail and chat in forums I may as well have the bare minimum data cap, this will impact my ISP's income so I don't see why they would care, unless a complaint had been made.

I thought that this was the main change from the last attempt to tighten the copyright laws, that the burden of "proof" has been removed from the ISP and the copyright holders must now lodge a complaint with a persons ISP, who will issue a warning.

There may be saints here on PF1, but if you are really moral you'll stay well clear of youtube and sites like it as a large amount of their content is not legal.

I would also wager that almost everyone has downloaded a song, or watched tv from overseas using proxies, found a book or two of instruction for that new software you just bought.

So whilst it may be illegal, everyone is doing it. The discussion needs to be about new economic models and promoting an ethical web. I can honestly say that i have donated to a developer for the free software that is available...ClamXav springs to mind.

Whilst almost no-one will pay the maximum, hopefully everyone will pay something, and if society has the attitude that non payment is wrong, maybe pirating will slow and ideally stop.

Tuneznz
16-07-2009, 07:15 PM
I question, if it is up to the copyright holders to lay a complaint to the isp, how do they know that Johnny Smith just used bit torrent to download the latest movie?

Erayd
16-07-2009, 07:19 PM
By downloading the same torrent and watching what the rest of the swarm is doing.

Tuneznz
16-07-2009, 07:25 PM
hmm, that makes scene. So taking Harry potter movies from TPB there is 562 torrents, and thats just from one website. I think that there is, if it tickles your fancy, a good chance that there is no one 'watching' the torrent....

Blam
16-07-2009, 07:29 PM
Thats why you should join a private tracker..

Tuneznz
16-07-2009, 07:33 PM
Anyone know about sneakernets? Lets see them track that so they can report that to whomever.

wainuitech
16-07-2009, 07:38 PM
What limepile wrote more or less sums it up.

Regarding the ISP's generally they dont want to do the "policing" -- if they are forced to they will, other wise they could get fined thousands.( or millions)

How I suspect it "may " go is if someone like the recording Industry do what Erayd explained, they could find out who the persons IP address they are targeting belongs to (Country /ISP), the ISP would be contacted.

The ISP will know who the IP address belonged to on a certain day/time ( unless you have a static IP , Like Telstra then thats real easy for them) - The Person " May " be watched as in what traffic is being down/uploaded - if its illegal activity I would think they get a warning -- the rests in the articles.

Edited: as for hiding your IP address - not every one who downloads the so called illegal content knows how to do that.

Cato
17-07-2009, 08:16 AM
Torrents sure, but what about everyone who is getting their "stuff" from the likes of rapidshare and megauploads etc?

They can't do much about that, can they?

Zipped and password protected... It wouldn't be very easy to prove anything.
I suspect peeps will start getting banned from ISPs without proof if they were to target them. But then again, these are the guy who download the most, it's counter-productive for ISPs to attack theis biggest customers...

wainuitech
17-07-2009, 08:24 AM
But then again, these are the guy who download the most, it's counter-productive for ISPs to attack theis biggest customers... ----rapidshare and megauploads That is true, but if it becomes law, and the ISP's are forced to take action then they will have to.
Other wise the ISP could possibly be fined thousands of $$$ -- If it meant losing a few customers compared to huge fines I think I know which way they would go.

As for rapid share -- still easy for them, they could locate where its coming from and see what it is.

It wouldn't be good if the ISP's have to do "policing" as it could mean higher costs overall ( someone has to pay for that stupid law) and as mentioned more than likely innocent people will get caught up.

Tuneznz
17-07-2009, 09:53 AM
http://www.med.govt.nz/upload/68683/proposal-document.pdf
is the draft

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/article.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10584649&pnum=0
Some reading...

"Constantly changing IP addresses could make it extremely difficult to prove that copyright infringement has been committed by the same person multiple times."

wainuitech
17-07-2009, 10:07 AM
Hmmm Interesting reading - only quickly skimmed it (at the moment) but if it happens -- this is the bit I was mentioning before


ISPs are also likely to still incur additional overheads complying with Section 92A. Should these prove to be too onerous, they could be passed onto internet subscribers. Old story, even if you are doing nothing wrong, you'll end up paying for others actions. ( bit like insurance companies)

Looks like someones going to be doing a lot of work to try and catch people.

Regarding the changing IP address - the ISP's will have records as to who had what IP at a certain time/day, so they can look it up -- refer back to quoted section. :groan:

Tuneznz
17-07-2009, 02:09 PM
Yes but the thing is how does the complainant know only from knowing the ip addie that it is YOU that has already received the first notice as they are not allowed to know anything about 'you', I suppose they could query the ISP to see if there is a outstanding first notice..