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somebody
21-06-2009, 09:01 AM
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/2520756/Inmates-told-build-your-own-jail-cells

This seems like a brilliant idea to me - shipping containers are strong, cheap, and well insulated (the refrigerated ones anyway). Plus, getting inmates to help build them will give them skills which are useful when they get out. Of course, they will have to be closely supervised to make sure they aren't deliberately sabotaging the build quality, but it could work.

davidmmac
21-06-2009, 09:23 AM
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/2520756/Inmates-told-build-your-own-jail-cells

This seems like a brilliant idea to me - shipping containers are strong, cheap, and well insulated (the refrigerated ones anyway). Plus, getting inmates to help build them will give them skills which are useful when they get out. Of course, they will have to be closely supervised to make sure they aren't deliberately sabotaging the build quality, but it could work.

Not a bad idea, you'd just have to make sure they don't build a way out too.

gary67
21-06-2009, 09:25 AM
Use the standard metal ones, damn hot in summer freezing cold in winter after all it's not mean to be a 5* hotel

--Wolf--
21-06-2009, 10:34 AM
A shipping container jail cell in NZ? That sounds less flasher than my room. In NZ??? No way. The inmates need their 5 star luxuries. After all, it's NZ.

somebody
21-06-2009, 10:35 AM
A shipping container jail cell in NZ? That sounds less flasher than my room. In NZ??? No way. The inmates need their 5 star luxuries. After all, it's NZ.

http://www.inhabitat.com/2008/08/22/travelodge-shipping-container-hotel/

Sweep
21-06-2009, 11:02 AM
I can almost hear the civil liberty screams from here.

Oh.... There they go:-
http://home.nzcity.co.nz/news/article.aspx?id=101635&fm=psp,tst

ZapperBoy10647
21-06-2009, 11:06 AM
I believe that this could work, of course in future you could stack em' up if you get short on room, there are problems though, such as prisoners need a window and also the fact that they could make weapons with the work materials...

They also need a toilet i believe and possibly a writing bench???...
ill post a sketch soon.....anyone got a link to that image hosting site people use.... lol

gary67
21-06-2009, 11:17 AM
Just insert image into your post or use this (http://imagef1.net.nz/)

tweak'e
21-06-2009, 07:47 PM
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/2520756/Inmates-told-build-your-own-jail-cells

This seems like a brilliant idea to me - shipping containers are strong, cheap, and well insulated (the refrigerated ones anyway). Plus, getting inmates to help build them will give them skills which are useful when they get out. Of course, they will have to be closely supervised to make sure they aren't deliberately sabotaging the build quality, but it could work.

insulated shipping containers are not cheap !
the ones shown on tv where not insulated. either prisoners are going to be freezing cold or the dept is going to have a HUGE heating bill.

Terry Porritt
21-06-2009, 07:58 PM
insulated shipping containers are not cheap !
the ones shown on tv where not insulated. either prisoners are going to be freezing cold or the dept is going to have a HUGE heating bill.

Not really, put the containers with prisoners on a container ship bound for Somalia..........let the pirates sort them out.

pcuser42
21-06-2009, 08:56 PM
What a good idea. If I had to shower in one during the Jamboree criminals deserve worse.

Drop it in the ocean as well.

prefect
22-06-2009, 07:36 AM
Perhaps the scum when sweltering inside in the summer and freezing in winter in a container cell can reflect on why they are in there.
Its up to media not to interview people complaining about prisoners rights.
Crooks only deserve basic human rights like food, not being hit and some shelter.

ZapperBoy10647
22-06-2009, 10:01 AM
Prefect you obviously have never been incarcerated, SHUTUP!!!
~Prisoners are just like other people, except for the wrong theyve done you'd never know the difference

Metla
22-06-2009, 10:28 AM
~Prisoners are just like other people, except for the wrong theyve done you'd never know the difference

Anyone could tell the difference if they were in a room with 100 people who were all prisoners. Its the attitude and mentality that enables them to do they deeds they do that is different.And the fact that many of them are 100 percent loco.

Do you think being surrounded by criminals worthy of jail time is as healthy an environment as being surrounded by regular members of society?. You probably do.Lmfao. That's more a reflection on yourself then the reality of the situation.


And for your information I have never been locked up, That is the ultimate sign of failure in life.And I'm no failure and wouldn't accept spending time with scum.

Digby
22-06-2009, 12:11 PM
insulated shipping containers are not cheap !
the ones shown on tv where not insulated. either prisoners are going to be freezing cold or the dept is going to have a HUGE heating bill.

Not really ! tell them they can do what many pensioners have to do - get some blankets !

No electric heating for them at all I say. That may make them not want to go back.

Metla
22-06-2009, 12:47 PM
I agree. teach them to knit and sew. And they may just make it through winter.

tweak'e
22-06-2009, 12:57 PM
Not really ! tell them they can do what many pensioners have to do - get some blankets !

No electric heating for them at all I say. That may make them not want to go back.


to true.

however those containers are that cold and wet they will dead fairly quick. capital punishment the slow way.
mayby they should take a leaf out of that camp in USA, the prison tent city. stinking hot in the day, feezing at night. certainly big motivation for them not to want to go back there!

however i do recall a school useing some as classrooms down in the south island. they breed em tough down there !

we have a couple of containers for storage. the insualted ones are better but once they are cold they do not heat up. the uninsulated ones are extremly hot in summer and freezing in winter. also condensation in them is bad, they get fairly wet.
we put roofs over them which helps a lot in keeping them cool in summer. winter they are still an ice box. even in the mild temps here its like being in a fridge.

i hope pensioners can get something out of this home insulating package the gov is offering. really sucks when people can't afford basics especially when power co's are making millions out of it.

beeswax34
22-06-2009, 01:05 PM
Prefect you obviously have never been incarcerated, SHUTUP!!!
~Prisoners are just like other people, except for the wrong theyve done you'd never know the difference

Ah yes, "except for the wrong they've done"

God forbid that they be punished for the crimes that they have committed cos I'm sure it was a mistake the first time, society was to blame for it anyway and they wont do it again- YEAH RIGHT!

ZapperBoy10647
22-06-2009, 02:59 PM
Lol finaly finished my masterpiece, here it is boys and girls.... notice the how it was all done in two colors.... blue and white =D

Attached file: container.jpg (http://www.imagef1.net.nz/files/container.jpg) (64 KB)

wainuitech
22-06-2009, 03:28 PM
Saw that on the news last night - compared to some people in poorer countries, a shipping container with roof, four walls, a bed and toilet would be luxury.

bob_doe_nz
22-06-2009, 03:31 PM
Lol finaly finished my masterpiece, here it is boys and girls.... notice the how it was all done in two colors.... blue and white =D

Attached file: container.jpg (http://www.imagef1.net.nz/files/container.jpg) (64 KB)

But it's only made for one?

Surely two to four people could be crammed neatly into a single container.

Terry Porritt
22-06-2009, 03:48 PM
But it's only made for one?

Surely two to four people could be crammed neatly into a single container.

Hell no, far more than that. Shipping containers are getting on for the size of a cattle truck. Around 80 people, adults, or 100 children used to be packed into cattle trucks during WWII.

Allowing for present day obesity, a shipping container would easily take 20 prisoners on a one way trip.

ZapperBoy10647
22-06-2009, 04:40 PM
The bed was actually a bunk FYI. should have put bunk instead lol...
~ Yeah my dad coverted a container into a lounge and kitchen it wasnt 2 bad...

gary67
22-06-2009, 07:38 PM
As Norman Stanley Fletcher said to his cellmate Godber in Porridge "If you can't do the time don't do the crime"

Twelvevolts
22-06-2009, 08:33 PM
Make cells out of whatever you want but you'll get a prison management problem. As a Prison Officer once told me, best prison control methods are single inmate cells, television and cannabis.

They got rid of most of the cannabis (which I agree with), single inmate cells are on the way out and some want to get rid of the televisions as well.

The current implementation of Sensible Sentencing Trust policies will lead to an increase in serious crime, treat people inhumanely and they'll act inhumanely. They're also costing us a lot of money to be locked up, money that would be better spent on rehabilitation.

Metla
22-06-2009, 08:52 PM
rehab?

If punishment doesn't discourage their chosen lifestyle then talking to them ain't going to do a damn thing. And if punishment causes them to re-offend then back they go to jail. If they never twig onto the concept of behaving then so be it, their choice to live in jail.

We should be adopting a 3 strike law.

gary67
23-06-2009, 06:54 AM
rehab?

If punishment doesn't discourage their chosen lifestyle then talking to them ain't going to do a damn thing. And if punishment causes them to re-offend then back they go to jail. If they never twig onto the concept of behaving then so be it, their choice to live in jail.

We should be adopting a 3 strike law.

I agree the three strike rule should apply as well at the third crime execution should become compulsory (where's the hangman smilie?)

somebody
23-06-2009, 08:32 AM
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10580176

HEAT PUMPS!!!! For crying out loud...

Deane F
23-06-2009, 09:11 AM
Make cells out of whatever you want but you'll get a prison management problem. As a Prison Officer once told me, best prison control methods are single inmate cells, television and cannabis.

They got rid of most of the cannabis (which I agree with), single inmate cells are on the way out and some want to get rid of the televisions as well.

Prison control is important - the only way a handful of guards can control a large population of prisoners is through the cooperation of the prisoners. If the prisoners stop cooperating then you have problems.

Deane F
23-06-2009, 09:14 AM
I wonder if the shipping container idea could be used for rest homes for the elderly? They would be insulated, have windows and toilets. I don't see what would be wrong with that.

In fact, they're just finishing a brand new police station in Beckenham here in Chch. Hate to think what that cost them. Don't know why they didn't stack shipping containers together as they would be ideal as offices.

Metla
23-06-2009, 09:29 AM
They would not be ideal for offices, and the Police I'm sure are worthy of better treatment then the scum they are employed to remove from the streets.

As are our elderly.


Well, apart from the criminally insane elderly that stalk our streets in the dark hours and hoard cats.

ZapperBoy10647
23-06-2009, 10:12 AM
All in all i believe this is a good idea, as for the T.V's they should stay...

somebody
23-06-2009, 10:14 AM
... T.V's they should stay...

Because?

Peterj116
23-06-2009, 10:27 AM
Because?

So they can block all stations & stream nothing but The Wiggles to all cells 24/7.

Once they get out... they won't be back.

Deane F
23-06-2009, 10:39 AM
Don't stream them Teletubbies - I am certain that Teletubbies was created by people taking a lot of recreational drugs.

Metla
23-06-2009, 10:42 AM
If we fed them Wiggles non-stop I'd switch over to the "treating them badly is going to backfire" camp. That would amount to torture, its inhumane, and just thinking about it is giving me the shits.

Metla
23-06-2009, 11:22 AM
Reading this dribble about rich kids giving out the bash

http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/celebrities/2526081/Chris-Brown-pleads-guilty-to-Rihanna-assault/

I was surprised by how severe teh punishment is, what would they get in NZ?

Ignored the first 3 times, diversion the 4th, a tiny slap on the hand the 5th, probably 20 convictions and a heap of broken people before getting jailed for 3 months.

I'm impressed with 180 community service, 5 years probation, attend a domestic violence course, and a 4 year jail term hanging over his head.

ZapperBoy10647
23-06-2009, 11:43 AM
Lmao, i'd rather teletubies than the wiggles or blues clues, im sure it'd look pretty fantastic when ur stoned

Peterj116
23-06-2009, 11:46 AM
Or maybe non-stop videos of Sue Bradford talking.



No... that'd see a massive increase in escapes - and maybe even murder.

Metla
23-06-2009, 11:49 AM
Lmao, i'd rather teletubies than the wiggles or blues clues, im sure it'd look pretty fantastic when ur stoned

So jail for you means getting stoned and kicking back in front of teh TV?:groan:

ZapperBoy10647
23-06-2009, 12:07 PM
pretty much, what planet have you been living in the last few years buddy?!?

somebody
23-06-2009, 12:10 PM
pretty much, what planet have you been living in the last few years buddy?!?

Zapperboy: If you were to summarise in 3 bullet points what the purpose of prison is, what would you say?

qazwsxokmijn
23-06-2009, 12:20 PM
pretty much, what planet have you been living in the last few years buddy?!?

:groan:

wratterus
23-06-2009, 12:25 PM
pretty much, what planet have you been living in the last few years buddy?!?

Umm... :stare:

Right.

I'd also like to see your idea of what prison is supposed to achieve..

ZapperBoy10647
23-06-2009, 12:34 PM
I never said that it SHOULD be like that, just that it WAS like that... theres even P etc in the jails.

qazwsxokmijn
23-06-2009, 12:35 PM
How can the drugs escape detection?

ZapperBoy10647
23-06-2009, 12:48 PM
Theres lots of ways, its not that hard.

wratterus
23-06-2009, 01:08 PM
Name 6. ;)

robbyp
23-06-2009, 01:47 PM
John Key said that to build a single cell for 1 prisoner costs $600,000 !!!
That is more than it costs to build a nice house. Shipping countainer type buildings (they actually aren't shipping containers, but purpose built prefabs) will cost half that.

Like always, the media are over hyping it and misleding people, as they are not actually 'shipping containers' that the government are considering, but purpose built prefabs that look a bit like prefabs.

qazwsxokmijn
23-06-2009, 01:54 PM
Anybody here know why it costs $600,000 just for a one room cell???

somebody
23-06-2009, 01:55 PM
John Key said that to build a single cell for 1 prisoner costs $600,000 !!!
That is more than it costs to build a nice house. Shipping countainer type buildings (they actually aren't shipping containers, but purpose built prefabs) will cost half that.

Like always, the media are over hyping it and misleding people, as they are not actually 'shipping containers' that the government are considering, but purpose built prefabs that look a bit like prefabs.

Yup.


Ms Collins said the cost of adding converted shipping containers as cells in existing prisons was about $53,000 to $63,000 per bed - compared with $372,000 per bed to build a new prison using the same device. The cost per bed at the Spring Hill prison was $643,000, using conventional construction. She had viewed two mock-up containers at Rimutaka Prison - a shower block and a cell block. "It's what you put in it that is important - they're lined and have heat pumps. They're spartan but they do have lavatories, so they're significantly better than what we have in Mt Eden and Mt Crawford."from the article I cited earlier: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10580176

As a taxpayer, I am much happier spending $370k (or even better, $53k) to house a prisoner than the $643k the previous Labour government thought was necessary.

robbyp
23-06-2009, 02:02 PM
Anybody here know why it costs $600,000 just for a one room cell???

Unless John Key got it wrong on Breakfast, because it does seem very high, and I don't know how NZ can sustain that high price. I suspect it costs $600,000, because there are lot's of people clipping the ticket. That could be the price it has cost to build all our prisions, divided by the number of prison beds. I know that service peoplle who go into the prisions to provide services charge a lot more, than they charge to the general public, due to risk.

ZapperBoy10647
23-06-2009, 02:07 PM
Politicians.

somebody
23-06-2009, 02:16 PM
Unless John Key got it wrong on Breakfast, because it does seem very high, and I don't know how NZ can sustain that high price. I suspect it costs $600,000, because there are lot's of people clipping the ticket. That could be the price it has cost to build all our prisions, divided by the number of prison beds. I know that service peoplle who go into the prisions to provide services charge a lot more, than they charge to the general public, due to risk.

That was the price for the most recently built prison (Spring Hill) in Waikato. It is cited elsewhere ($380million plus other costs) to house around 650 prisoners.

ZapperBoy10647
23-06-2009, 02:23 PM
Build a prison on the auckland wharf.... 500mil for 3k prisoners lol.

somebody
23-06-2009, 02:25 PM
Build a prison on the auckland wharf.... 500mil for 3k prisoners lol.

Why should prisoners get to enjoy prime waterfront real estate?

ZapperBoy10647
23-06-2009, 02:36 PM
lol make sure the windows face inside the compound :)

Twelvevolts
23-06-2009, 09:08 PM
rehab?

If punishment doesn't discourage their chosen lifestyle then talking to them ain't going to do a damn thing. And if punishment causes them to re-offend then back they go to jail. If they never twig onto the concept of behaving then so be it, their choice to live in jail.

We should be adopting a 3 strike law.

I just hope you're prepared to wear the cost of the three strikes policy, containers or not that will cost a lot to enforce. Following Americam solutions will no doubt result in the same issues they have in America. If it worked why is their murder rate so high??

I sat on a District Prisons Board for five years, I noted two things that seemed to make a difference to the majority of offenders. One was reaching the age of thirty and the other was finding a women who would straighten them out. Rehabilitation of one sort or another was also much better than no rehabilitation, so yes in a sense talking does work better than more prison.

Length of sentence if anything worked the other way, just got inmates more pissed off and angry when they finally got out. The hard line policies promoted by so many on here will likely have exactly the opposite impact to what you think they will, more serious offending.

Most of you seem to think inmates are all monsters, but majority aren't and in fact many of them could have been dealt with by more effective methods if we weren't spending all the money on container prisons and the like.

qazwsxokmijn
23-06-2009, 09:36 PM
.....finding a women who would straighten them out.
:D Good luck finding women who wants to start a relationship with a crazy criminal.

"Single, 28 year old currently serving time for killing a couple of dudes. Really interested in guns, violence and pain. Favorite things include gangsta rap, drive-by-shootings, P and weed. Must love FIGHTING dogs."

Metla
23-06-2009, 09:53 PM
I just hope you're prepared to wear the cost of the three strikes policy, containers or not that will cost a lot to enforce. Following Americam solutions will no doubt result in the same issues they have in America. If it worked why is their murder rate so high??


Excellent, crime rates in America have been on the decline for near 2 decades, and the 3 strikes policy cleaned a lot of petty criminals off the streets and averted crime escalation. Stop a problem when its small and it doesn't turn into a big one.

I don't think crims are monsters, I think the ones that keep on offending have a debt to pay to society, and a responicbility (as we all do) to behave.

Sweep
23-06-2009, 09:53 PM
I just hope you're prepared to wear the cost of the three strikes policy, containers or not that will cost a lot to enforce. Following Americam solutions will no doubt result in the same issues they have in America. If it worked why is their murder rate so high??

I sat on a District Prisons Board for five years, I noted two things that seemed to make a difference to the majority of offenders. One was reaching the age of thirty and the other was finding a women who would straighten them out. Rehabilitation of one sort or another was also much better than no rehabilitation, so yes in a sense talking does work better than more prison.

Length of sentence if anything worked the other way, just got inmates more pissed off and angry when they finally got out. The hard line policies promoted by so many on here will likely have exactly the opposite impact to what you think they will, more serious offending.

Most of you seem to think inmates are all monsters, but majority aren't and in fact many of them could have been dealt with by more effective methods if we weren't spending all the money on container prisons and the like.

Why not start with parenting skills in the first place along with discipline so we hopefully don't have to put people in a prison to begin with?

What effective methods can you come up with that would help in this regard?

You seem to think that finding a women (woman) will straighten them out or we just wait for the crim to be over 30 as the case may be.

So we have no female prisoners in New Zealand or are all the females in prisons lesbian so a good woman would have fixed the problem before it started?

For the male prisoners we fix them up to be married at age 10 to a good woman. But hang on they had Mothers did they not? Were the Mothers not good?

Once upon a time the prisoners had fathers too but they seem to be often in a prison or just packed up and left and the fathers often do not know for a fact that the child they pay for was sired by them. I might add that at times the mother does not know either.

When I was a teen there were very few murders or killings per year never mind per week. Must look at the actual statistics on that.

Looking forward to your solution.

Sweep
23-06-2009, 10:56 PM
It may be coming anyway.

http://home.nzcity.co.nz/news/article.aspx?id=101741&fm=psp,nwl
I will book a room.

Twelvevolts
24-06-2009, 07:27 PM
You seem to think that finding a women (woman) will straighten them out or we just wait for the crim to be over 30 as the case may be.



I'm not suggesting that at all.

mikebartnz
25-06-2009, 01:20 AM
It would even be better if like in the Telecom advert the containers were in the middle of the ocean.

beeswax34
25-06-2009, 01:44 AM
It would even be better if like in the Telecom advert the containers were in the middle of the ocean.

But apparently they can then get out and call for a water taxi!!!

pcuser42
25-06-2009, 07:37 AM
Not if the phone isn't in there in the first place.

qazwsxokmijn
25-06-2009, 10:47 AM
touche pcuser. ;)

somebody
27-08-2009, 02:09 PM
Here we go: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10593541

pcuser42
27-08-2009, 03:48 PM
He said the important aspect was to keep them air-conditioned and heated in winter.

Says it all really.

kenj
27-08-2009, 03:55 PM
SWMBO and IWOH (I Who Obey Her) are applying to be incarcerated next winter as we really can't afford to heat our house properly.

What are our chances... I don't think a couple of bricks through a shop window would get us more than a couple of nights. We would preferably want 3 months over the colder months and be released as spring arrives. What crime would we need to do to get this result?

Ken :confused:

somebody
27-08-2009, 04:02 PM
SWMBO and IWOH (I Who Obey Her) are applying to be incarcerated next winter as we really can't afford to heat our house properly.

What are our chances... I don't think a couple of bricks through a shop window would get us more than a couple of nights. We would preferably want 3 months over the colder months and be released as spring arrives. What crime would we need to do to get this result?

Ken :confused:

The father of an old friend of mine worked at the Mangaroa prison in Hawkes Bay, and said that there were some inmates who deliberately committed petty crimes so they could get back into prison - 3 meals a day, warm living conditions, a TV - better than they had out in the "real world".