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  1. #11
    Senior Member 1101's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hands off my plastic Bags !

    Next thing they'll be telling us what shower head we are permitted to use, and what type of light bulb...oh wait, umm

    Plastic bags, just another case of targeting the low hanging fruit . Pick something that will get guaranteed news exposure.
    And then ignore all the plastic in packaging , the wastefull plastic packaging in products sold by supermarkets & The Warehouse that charge(tax) you for a plastic bag.
    The retailers that charge 10c for plastic bags dont seem to want to charge extra for products containing alot of plastic packaging. Why is that

    Then ignore all the pollution caused by paper mills, paper bags: not so clean & green .

    That photo above, please tell us what % is bags & what % is other plastic packaging . You must have those stats otherwise you would have posted up that photo.
    Or is the photo just more sensationalizing .

    I dont mind being charged 10c (or even say $1) for plastic bags , I have heaps. But can they at least be honest about uneeded plastic packing in the stuff they sell & not JUST target bags .

    What happened to the plastic that was supposed to break down in the soil that was being developed, did that not pan out ?

  2. #12
    Rocket Dog WalOne's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hands off my plastic Bags !

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan View Post
    Oh pctek - those were the days!
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    I have very high hopes that seriousness is a reversible condition.

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  3. #13
    Junior Member ManUFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hands off my plastic Bags !

    Yep - paper rubbish bags, paper supermarket bags and REUSED boxes to stack food in! Also, glass milk bottles, with home deliveries.......
    We use re-usable supermarket bags (cloth) when possible (much easier to stack in the car too), but inevitably the 'quick' shop on the way home gets bunged in plastic...

  4. #14
    Senior Member Digby's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hands off my plastic Bags !

    Quote Originally Posted by 1101 View Post
    Next thing they'll be telling us what shower head we are permitted to use, and what type of light bulb...oh wait, umm

    Plastic bags, just another case of targeting the low hanging fruit . Pick something that will get guaranteed news exposure.
    And then ignore all the plastic in packaging , the wastefull plastic packaging in products sold by supermarkets & The Warehouse that charge(tax) you for a plastic bag.
    The retailers that charge 10c for plastic bags dont seem to want to charge extra for products containing alot of plastic packaging. Why is that

    Then ignore all the pollution caused by paper mills, paper bags: not so clean & green .

    That photo above, please tell us what % is bags & what % is other plastic packaging . You must have those stats otherwise you would have posted up that photo.
    Or is the photo just more sensationalizing .

    I dont mind being charged 10c (or even say $1) for plastic bags , I have heaps. But can they at least be honest about uneeded plastic packing in the stuff they sell & not JUST target bags .

    What happened to the plastic that was supposed to break down in the soil that was being developed, did that not pan out ?
    Yes, as you say what about all the heavy plastic packaging bottles, butter containers, donuts, batteries, every small gadget you buy.
    They are all hard plastic that will take much longer to rot away (if ever)

    Whats the problem?
    We have plenty of valleys etc for rubbish dumps, its the big stuff like sofas, fridges, tvs that take up the room.

    The only thing I do worry about is the plastic that ends up in the sea and drowns fish etc.
    So what colour is your Adkaf?
    Have you joined Proud to Be Kiwi yet?

  5. #15
    Senior Member paulw's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hands off my plastic Bags !

    Quote Originally Posted by pctek View Post
    They don't really rot...they do become brittle and break up into very small pieces, all plastic does that.

    Used for rubbish or not, how do you know what happens to them after your bin has been collected? I've seen plastic bags blowing around at the tip....
    We have enough pollution now....it is possible to make similar stuff from biodegradable materials, corn for instance.
    But I guess it's cost....

    And we know the world runs on cheap for the manufacturer...
    We did manage before plastic, even I remember paper rubbish bags, and paper supermarket bags.
    I also remember the paper supermarket bags and how on a wet day they fell to bits when you were putting stuff into the car..
    Regards,

    Paul W
    Taco Bell is not a Mexican telephone company

  6. #16
    pcsourcepoint
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    Default Re: Hands off my plastic Bags !

    Quote Originally Posted by 1101 View Post
    What happened to the plastic that was supposed to break down in the soil that was being developed, did that not pan out ?
    Essentially it did not really work out (breakdown) fast enough - No significant decrease in breakdown (biodegradability) as researched by packaging scientists.. Two main ways to create biodegradability - add chemicals/modify or create a new alternative material...

    I was involved in the latter - testing and researching packaging for ex UEB/CHH Industries. Research Scientists were hired from abroad, and we created parchment/vege/corn starch based paper/bags. Collaborated with research institutes within NZ. Spent - or wasted nearly 2 years. Deemed too costly, and unwieldy to manufacture large scale. Decay times were too slow - even under varying humidity conditions. So from current Kraft paper, PET, or HDPE (High Density polyethylene) to "vege paper". Think it was political - Company had to be seen (including stakeholders/shareholders ) to try it regardless of it's huge research cost.

    Small plain paper bags alone are too costly, time consuming, to produce for the consumer shopping market. Kraft paper bags still made mainly for large scale Industry - Dairy, Sugar, Flour and Cement - night and day. I use to test/report from trials.

    I also worked for fiber products, petroleum industry and plastic resin importers - much cheaper and easier to form to plastic, than planting trees -to convert to paper, less downstream industries (adding processing cost, pollution, transport. and storage for paper made products). Ironically plastics largely start from underground from petroleum/methane - which can take hundreds of years to form, then ends up (ideally reverting back to raw state) to the ground - which unsuprising would take decades or hundreds of years to breakdown.

    So plastics - like it or not it is. Easier and cheaper to set up a plastics manufacturing company than a paper producing company -though distribution would be cheaper. Guess it's being responsible with it. I think Germany or Belgium - a customer of ours - introduced legislation to control packing end of use.
    Last edited by kahawai chaser; 18-07-2017 at 02:08 PM.
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  7. #17
    Senior Member Digby's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hands off my plastic Bags !

    If the plastic bags end up in a landfill I don't see any problem. They are small and thin and take up hardly any room.

    I do see a problem out in the country and in the sea if people throw them any where. (I don't)

    What about policing this for a while and some hefty fines (like Singapore)
    So what colour is your Adkaf?
    Have you joined Proud to Be Kiwi yet?

  8. #18
    Senior Member pctek's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hands off my plastic Bags !

    Quote Originally Posted by Digby View Post
    Yes, as you say what about all the heavy plastic packaging bottles, butter containers, donuts, batteries, every small gadget you buy.
    .
    Totally true.
    A packet of biscuits for instance...insane the amount of plastic everything has now.
    And it all uses oil.....they go on about cars, but it's the day to day products that consume the most oil.'
    wipe your paws.

  9. #19
    pcsourcepoint
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    Default Re: Hands off my plastic Bags !

    Quote Originally Posted by Digby View Post
    If the plastic bags end up in a landfill I don't see any problem. They are small and thin and take up hardly any room.

    I do see a problem out in the country and in the sea if people throw them any where. (I don't)

    What about policing this for a while and some hefty fines (like Singapore)
    Good idea - But I think perhaps start form the manufacturer's/suppliers of bags and the Packaging Council of NZ to implement a regime of regulations regarding responsibility not only to users but to the manufacturer's on disposal/collection. That is they can help by printing Company name/Logo and contact phone number on plastic bags - so if found strewn someplace, people contact (or complain online). Company take steps to prevent or reduce their bag pollution. Reputation is key here.
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  10. #20
    Senior Member Digby's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hands off my plastic Bags !

    Quote Originally Posted by kahawai chaser View Post
    Good idea - But I think perhaps start form the manufacturer's/suppliers of bags and the Packaging Council of NZ to implement a regime of regulations regarding responsibility not only to users but to the manufacturer's on disposal/collection. That is they can help by printing Company name/Logo and contact phone number on plastic bags - so if found strewn someplace, people contact (or complain online). Company take steps to prevent or reduce their bag pollution. Reputation is key here.
    Better to stamp the owners name on the bag when they buy it from the shop, so that if it ends up in the sea or a river or drain, the council can fine them $100.
    So what colour is your Adkaf?
    Have you joined Proud to Be Kiwi yet?

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