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View Full Version : OT, Damn Dirty Washing Machine Pumps



bob_doe_nz
09-12-2006, 08:29 PM
Me mums asked me to take a look at her washing machine to see why the cold water is not dispensing properly. I found that THIS (http://imagef1.net.nz/bob_doe_nz/files/pump_thing.jpg) gadget is not working correctly.

Stupid question but, anyone know where I can get one?

Machine is a F&P Smartdrive GW708. About 8 or so years old.

R2x1
09-12-2006, 08:42 PM
That gadget is a pair of solenoid vaves. Disconnect the water and power supplies. Swap over the water supply pipes, and then swap over the wires to the solenoids, it will then "dispense" cold water. You now have a hot water problem though.
A much more common problem is that the strainer fitted in the hose connector (might be at either end) is clogged. clean the mesh strainer and bingo - many times smiles result.Either way, the $$$ stay home, and your Mum has a washing machine to use even if (worst case) it is only for cold washing until you get a replacement valve assembly.

bob_doe_nz
09-12-2006, 09:01 PM
This has got me thinking, If I get a hose mixer from say the garden shop and hook it up at the back of the machine...

Hmm... :rolleyes:

What does one suggest to clean the filter bit with? Toothbrush and water?

R2x1
09-12-2006, 09:19 PM
Just a rinse under the tap, reversing the normal flow often works, but a toothbrush would be great. It's metal gauze IIRC for that vintage.

Greg
10-12-2006, 03:29 AM
Doesn't the machine itself heat the water when required for hot washes?

SurferJoe46
10-12-2006, 05:21 AM
This has got me thinking, If I get a hose mixer from say the garden shop and hook it up at the back of the machine...

Hmm... :rolleyes:

What does one suggest to clean the filter bit with? Toothbrush and water?

Use vinegar (acidic acid) to dissolve calcium and mineral deposits...just don't soak the solenoids.

Since you have dual solenoids, then the machine receives hot water from an outside source...the machine does not heat it itself.

Try this site to ID what you need...I suppose that NZ and US washing machine solenoids are pretty much the same. Voltages may or may not be the same.

Jen
10-12-2006, 08:06 AM
Ring Fisher & Paykel and ask about spare parts. They probably still have suitable replacement parts for that model even if it is 8 years old.

bob_doe_nz
10-12-2006, 08:07 AM
Thanks for your replies guys. You've all been a great help :)

personthingy
10-12-2006, 09:05 AM
This has got me thinking, If I get a hose mixer from say the garden shop and hook it up at the back of the machine... Hmm... :rolleyes:No... Absolutely not. All you'll achieve is mixing the hot and cold for the house, and pressurizing your hot water cylinder beyond it's rating. At best this will put a lot of hot water on your roof. At worst, o dear, BIG MESS Even if you didn't have these issues to consider, you'd get hot rinses, and that would do wonders for upping your power usage, and there's a limit how much power we can ship up to the North Island for you guys :p The idea of swapping the solenoid round is a good one, but cleaning filters on the old one, or better still replacing the solenoid seems a better one :)

also by the time you got all the right hoses etc, you may as well have paid for the genuine part

bob_doe_nz
10-12-2006, 10:03 AM
Ring Fisher & Paykel and ask about spare parts. They probably still have suitable replacement parts for that model even if it is 8 years old.

5 Cents says they charge an exhorbant price for this part, or say warranty is void because I'm not an authorised service repair person.

personthingy
10-12-2006, 10:09 AM
5 Cents says they charge an exhorbant price for this part, or say warranty is void because I'm not an authorised service repair person.Warranty? 5 cents says they will want less than $100 for the part, and they wont care about the warranty, after all if you pay for the part and do it yourself you obviously don't care about the warranty either!

Safari
10-12-2006, 10:12 AM
5 Cents says they charge an exhorbant price for this part, or say warranty is void because I'm not an authorised service repair person.

Not true. There are many places that sell F&P spares. I purchased a new valve myself recently and fitted it. Not sure of the price now but it was quite reasonable. I got mine from Egley Electrical http://www.egleys.co.nz/
I don't think they are in Auckland but there will be similar places there who stock the parts.

The price was $45

Graham L
10-12-2006, 01:59 PM
Of course the solenoid valves aren't working: they're not connected. They're worked by electricity and should have wires going to them. :D

If it's open circuited coils, you might be able to get just the coils ... they are easily replaced. Perhaps a washing machine service company would give you some old valves which might have good coils.

But certainly look at the filters first. It could easily be an idiot thing like that.

Poppa John
10-12-2006, 02:34 PM
There is always the local Launderette !! PJ

Sweep
10-12-2006, 08:40 PM
Use vinegar (acidic acid) to dissolve calcium and mineral deposits...just don't soak the solenoids.

Since you have dual solenoids, then the machine receives hot water from an outside source...the machine does not heat it itself.

Try this site to ID what you need...I suppose that NZ and US washing machine solenoids are pretty much the same. Voltages may or may not be the same.

I think you mean acetic acid in vinegar? All acids happen to be acidic as apposed to caustic.

bob_doe_nz
10-12-2006, 10:26 PM
Hmm, things did not go as planned... :Xmouth:
I took out the part and carefully removed the filter bit, dipped it in vinegar for a few seconds and then rinsed thoroughly.

Poured a little vinegar into the tank itself, Rinsed about 6 times, dried outside and replaced back into machine.

The problem still remains. Hot water tap WAS fine.

So we ended up doing the washing by filling the tub with the garden hose.

Problem is... Now the machine will not spin properly.

(In a Yoda voice)
Agitate it does, drain water it does too.
Spin rapidly it does not. :illogical
Spin slowly it will.:stare:

They just don't make products like they used to do they...

SurferJoe46
11-12-2006, 05:02 AM
Now I suspect the programmer switch...had one die here a year or so ago...but it controls all the events as they come into sequence for the various cycles.

Missing a cycle or two is usually a bad/good thing...at least it makes it easier to diagnose.

I wouldn't try to wire around the timer..there are a lot of wires and they don't make a lot of sense to even the people who are supposed to be professional about such things...it's just a policy to swap parts until the acciddently fix things these days.

The transmission is not suspect as it has a few of the opertions still working...and the motor's good too or nothing would move at all. Most newer units have one or no belts...some are direct-driven from the motor...so you can see that's not the problem.

<edit> Gads..just looked at your machine in PDF and it's got one of those membrane type bubble switches...sorry...it's probably very expensive and nasty. Maybe you can open this page : http://www.stokes-aus.com.au/StokesAP/Manufacturer_Info/FP/WASHERS_DRYERS/479115%20Washer%20Ph4%20AW%20LW085%20MW058%20GW508 %20608%20708.pdf

Here's a diagnostic aid for you:


Phase 1 + 2 machines
Models: GW500, 600, 700. MW050, 060, 650, 070. GW501, 601, 701. MW 051, 061, 071, LW015.

Hold "Wash Temp Down", then press "Power". Wait for the two short "beeps", then press "Advance" once only. Toggle the "Spin" buttons until "Hold" and "Slow Spin" lamps are lit.

If there is a fault, it will now be displayed on the wash lamps across the top of the control panel.

Phase 3, 4, 5, 6 +7 machines
Models: GW503, 603, 703. MW053. LW035. GW508, 608, 708. MW058. LW085. GW509, 609, 709. MW059. LW095. AW095. GW511, 611, 711. MW511. GW512, 612, 712. MW512.

Proceed as per phase 1 + 2 machines, after the two beeps, do not press "Advance" - proceed to the "Spin" buttons.


To read any code displayed, start at the right and note which lamps are lit. It's a binary code; ie : 1+2+4+8+16+32+64+132. Add up the ones which are lit to give the last fault code.

Note: There are several models where the lamp representing 132 does not have an opening in the control panel. However, it is fitted and can be seen through the control panel if you look closely.

IW Models

Press and hold "Specials/Life Cycles" button, then press "Power". Wait for two "beeps" and release the buttons. Press "Specials/Life Cycles" again to bring up the status display. Using the buttons to the right of the display screen, you can change the display to show warning, status and last fault.

SurferJoe46
11-12-2006, 05:20 AM
I got a phone number for you to use when you get the fault codes written down.

I did this from my home in Southern California, USA...so I hope you know the area codes: 01392 469702 :D

They say they are Australasian, and have parts and engineeers (we call them technicians, the word "parts" translates freely) if you need extra help.

personthingy
11-12-2006, 06:51 AM
Do you actually use hot water in the machine? If not, then i reinforce the suggestion that you swap the wires and hoses round so the solenoid currently controlling hot does cold instead. You should have no problem with supply of water to the washing.

As for the no-spinning...... Tricky. All though generally that points at the pump not having done it's job, and therefore there's too much water so the machine refuses to do the fast spin.

Either that or you disturbed the water level checker thing, which is often little more than a thin plastic pipe going of to a device with a diaphragm and a switch. If the machine thinks it's got water in it still, it won't spin.

SurferJoe46
11-12-2006, 07:03 AM
....then i reinforce the suggestion that you swap the wires and hoses round so the solenoid currently controlling hot does cold instead. You should have no problem with supply of water to the washing.

Nope..won't work!

In the part about it replacing the hot with cold..that part's ok...

BUT you need cold water that would normally be turned on by the cold water solenoid from command of the control panel to rinse with cold. Since there's no cold water solenoid when you make that change, the machine will just wait until the tub gets cold water in it...in this case..forever.

personthingy
11-12-2006, 07:14 AM
Nope..won't work!

In the part about it replacing the hot with cold..that part's ok...

BUT you need cold water that would normally be turned on by the cold water solenoid from command of the control panel to rinse with cold. Since there's no cold water solenoid when you make that change, the machine will just wait until the tub gets cold water in it...in this case..forever.I think you misunderstood me Joe.

I'm suggesting that the wires supplying hot and cold control at the solenoids be swapped, and the incoming hoses as well. The will have the machine excepting cold water via the still functional ex-hot solenoid, and excepting hot via the suspect ex-cold solenoid. My concept is to have the working component doing the needed job, and the suspect component doing the frivolous one.

Better still.. get a new part, and have everything doing what it was designed to do :D

pctek
11-12-2006, 07:19 AM
They just don't make products like they used to do they...

No they don't.
6 years ago when I worked at F^P the engineers complained a lot to me that management would consider their recommendations for certain parts then decide on the cheapest....not what they had said.
This was because of all the cheap imports from Korea and other places.

personthingy
11-12-2006, 07:22 AM
No they don't...............This was because of all the cheap imports from Korea and other places.Ye gets what yer pay for, and people seem to like spending no more than a few hundy on a washing machine :(

bob_doe_nz
11-12-2006, 09:17 AM
Well, mummy dearest obviously does not trust me at all and sent in a service repairman.

Cold water valve, reed switch (which was a problem I didn't bother to mention but we knew needed replacing) and one other part got replaced.

All up, almost the cost of a new machine. :xmouth: Well I didn't have to pay it so I'm not worried. ;)
As an added bonus, I got the chance to clean the drum of all that soap scum accumulated over the years with a water blaster. Lots of fun that.

somebody
03-05-2008, 10:51 PM
Ok guys... I'm having a similar issue, except neither solenoid seems to work (i.e. cold/warm/hot settings doesn't make a difference). The machine is a very similar model to bob_doe_nz's.

The washing machine seems to "start", but no water gets dispensed, and thus it doesn't do anything (motors don't spin - only sign of life is the LEDs on the front panel).

I have taken a multimeter to the leads going to each solenoid, and it is reading 0V regardless of what the washing machine is supposed to be doing. If I take the connectors off the solenoid, and put the multimeter across those leads directly (rather than being left connected to the solenoid), it reads around 15v.

Any ideas on what I can try next, without electrocuting myself? It seems to me like the electronics might be dead.

Safari
03-05-2008, 11:36 PM
It could be a faulty switch that is actuated by the loading door. I had to get one replaced recently.
When you open it everything stops so it may not be switching on with the lid closed.

feersumendjinn
04-05-2008, 01:01 AM
Ok guys... I'm having a similar issue, except neither solenoid seems to work (i.e. cold/warm/hot settings doesn't make a difference). The machine is a very similar model to bob_doe_nz's.

The washing machine seems to "start", but no water gets dispensed, and thus it doesn't do anything (motors don't spin - only sign of life is the LEDs on the front panel).

I have taken a multimeter to the leads going to each solenoid, and it is reading 0V regardless of what the washing machine is supposed to be doing. If I take the connectors off the solenoid, and put the multimeter across those leads directly (rather than being left connected to the solenoid), it reads around 15v.

Any ideas on what I can try next, without electrocuting myself? It seems to me like the electronics might be dead.
Check the solenoid coils have continuity (check across disconnected solenoid terminals with the ohms range).
I would think the voltage at the solenoids should be 230v AC, switched by relays from the control board, I would point the finger at the electronics as it seems to be a common problem with your older F & Ps. (Seems to be $300 odd to fix).

williamF
04-05-2008, 02:28 AM
Ok guys... I'm having a similar issue, except neither solenoid seems to work (i.e. cold/warm/hot settings doesn't make a difference). The machine is a very similar model to bob_doe_nz's.

The washing machine seems to "start", but no water gets dispensed, and thus it doesn't do anything (motors don't spin - only sign of life is the LEDs on the front panel).

I have taken a multimeter to the leads going to each solenoid, and it is reading 0V regardless of what the washing machine is supposed to be doing. If I take the connectors off the solenoid, and put the multimeter across those leads directly (rather than being left connected to the solenoid), it reads around 15v.

Any ideas on what I can try next, without electrocuting myself? It seems to me like the electronics might be dead.

sounds more like either the coils have gone short and/or the driver mosfet/relay/transistor has turned into a resistor or burnt out. most probably the coil has shorted turns/dead short. stick the multimeter on ohms range, it'll probably be a few hundred to a few thousand ohms if its zero ohms (dead short) look at replacing the solenoids and whatever drives/supplies the solenoids as the short ill have buggered it up

SurferJoe46
04-05-2008, 05:11 AM
It could be a faulty switch that is actuated by the loading door. I had to get one replaced recently.
When you open it everything stops so it may not be switching on with the lid closed.

I think not...you can still add laundry whilst the machine is filling up with water, and add soap and whatever too..but that is all before the drum or agitator starts to move.

The safety on the door is to prevent you from becoming "engaged" with/to the moving parts, and water is not that hazardous, so you can have the door open while it is filling.

I go for the bad control panel thought. It's not sending a command..ergo it's not the safety switch I believe.

somebody
04-05-2008, 08:26 AM
I think not...you can still add laundry whilst the machine is filling up with water, and add soap and whatever too..but that is all before the drum or agitator starts to move.

The safety on the door is to prevent you from becoming "engaged" with/to the moving parts, and water is not that hazardous, so you can have the door open while it is filling.

I go for the bad control panel thought. It's not sending a command..ergo it's not the safety switch I believe.

Cheers guys. This washing machine doesn't seem to have a "safety" switch, as I have opened the lid while it is in the spin cycle before and it hasn't stopped. Likewise, it will start with the lid open as well. I will have a dig around though, just in case.

The solenoids have stickers on them saying they're 12V DC, however I think that's the least of my worries at the moment. If I "advance" the wash through to say the spin cycle, it should start regardless of whether there's water coming in. That doesn't happen - it just sits there doing nothing.

personthingy
04-05-2008, 08:32 AM
If you advance the cycle it should still work PROVIDING you have water in the machine. There are usually pressure switches that check this sort of thing.You may need to bucket some water in to test the "no go at spin cycle" concept :)

You have my sympathy. My washing machine died last week. I think the problem was that the smoke got out. I've been wondering where the smoke is supposed to be stored and how to reinstall it...........

somebody
04-05-2008, 09:16 AM
I think I may have located the problem. What appears to be a magnetic switch is responsible for determining whether the lid is closed or not. Regardless of what state the lid is in, and whether there is a magnet near it or not, it reads the same resistance.

somebody
04-05-2008, 09:37 AM
I think I may have located the problem. What appears to be a magnetic switch is responsible for determining whether the lid is closed or not. Regardless of what state the lid is in, and whether there is a magnet near it or not, it reads the same resistance.

I'm not quite game enough to just short across the two leads to see if makes a difference. Would I be safe doing that?

personthingy
04-05-2008, 10:15 AM
I'm not quite game enough to just short across the two leads to see if makes a difference. Would I be safe doing that? If it reads as a very high resistance, then short it, if a very low one, then pull a lead off..

All with the power off of course.

I can't see how you could cause damage, other than enabling the machine to work with the lid up, as it shouldn't have, but did anyway.

At this point what have you to lose? You either fix it, or right it off. The cost of proffesional repair is likely to be similar to the cost of replacement.

somebody
04-05-2008, 10:55 AM
If it reads as a very high resistance, then short it, if a very low one, then pull a lead off..

All with the power off of course.

I can't see how you could cause damage, other than enabling the machine to work with the lid up, as it shouldn't have, but did anyway.

At this point what have you to lose? You either fix it, or right it off. The cost of proffesional repair is likely to be similar to the cost of replacement.

Ok - shorting it with some thicker gauge wire has worked, so it must be that switch. As there only seems to be around 5V going through it, it should be safe for me to replace it myself.

B.M.
04-05-2008, 11:51 AM
The lid micro switch has always been a source of problems.

I've just strapped it out many times but remember it is a safety switch so it should be replaced as soon as possible.

There is also an out of balance switch that gives trouble so bear that in mind.

Also, a lot of the models do a POST test at power on and the number of beeps gives you a clue to what's wrong.

However, all this is dependent on Make & model. ;)