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View Full Version : Free to Air Digital TV - will it make a difference?



Rutherford
15-06-2006, 04:37 PM
What difference will it make to YOU? In case you missed the news, read about it here (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000081&sid=aqaSia7iMHVE&refer=australia) and here also. (http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/411425/750195)

New Zealand's government will invest NZ$25 million ($16 million) to help develop free-to-air digital television services over the next five years, Broadcasting Minister Steve Maharey said today.

It will require TV owners to purchase a set-top box similar to that used for Sky Television and in some areas a satellite dish.

It is estimated the set-top boxes will cost around $200, with fully installed systems costing about $400. However, those costs may decrease as more households connect to digital.

There will be no on-going subscription costs.

And this previous PF1 post: (http://pressf1.pcworld.co.nz/showthread.php?t=69531&highlight=digital)

Television devotees who have spent thousands on new "high-definition" sets may not be able to access the technology when it arrives.

pctek
15-06-2006, 04:44 PM
$200 - $400! And for what - The same drivel they show now?

mode3
15-06-2006, 04:51 PM
For that price you are better off with sky and plus it all depends on the channels that they are going to offer.
I think that very few will take it up on that price and with the limited amount of people in nz already I don't see it catching on.

these are some of the channels you get on freeview in the uk, but there are more people.

BBC One, BBC Two, ITV 1, Channel 4 and five, ITV 2, ITV 3, ITV 4, BBC Three, Sky Three, BBC Four, E4, More4, UK History, UK Bright Ideas, ABC1 , FTN , Teachers TV, Community
BBC News 24, Sky News, Sky Sports News, BBC Parliament CBBC, Cbeebies QVC, Bid TV , Price-drop TV , Ideal World The Hits, The Music Factory BBC Radio 1, BBC Radio 2, BBC Radio 3 ,BBC Radio 4, BBC Radio 5 Live, BBC Radio 5 Live Sports Extra, BBC Radio 6, BBC 1Xtra, BBC Radio 7, TalkSport, BBC Asian Network, BBC World Service, Smash Hits, KISS, Kerrang, Smooth FM (formerly Jazz FM), Oneword, The Hits, Q, Magic, Heat, Mojo, 3C Country & Premier Christian
BBCi, Teletext, FourText, YooPlay (Games), Hits Extra

maccrazy
15-06-2006, 05:52 PM
$200 - $400! And for whatMy regular reception is pretty good, but I have a friend who lives in an area where reception is absolutely terrible (despite the fact it is a residential suburb in Auckland) so I'd say that those with bad reception would be happy to pay that price for a decent picture.

Remember that if you live in an area which is covered by digital terrestrial broadcasts you won't need a set-top box if your TV has a digital tuner in it. I'm personally very happy there will be terrestrial broadcasts because I thought they were only going to use satellite. :)

Edit: One thing I don't think has been mentioned, is will there be an EPG?

Safari
15-06-2006, 05:58 PM
For that price you are better off with sky and plus it all depends on the channels that they are going to offer.
I think that very few will take it up on that price and with the limited amount of people in nz already I don't see it catching on.

these are some of the channels you get on freeview in the uk, but there are more people.

BBC One, BBC Two, ITV 1, Channel 4 and five, ITV 2, ITV 3, ITV 4, BBC Three, Sky Three, BBC Four, E4, More4, UK History, UK Bright Ideas, ABC1 , FTN , Teachers TV, Community
BBC News 24, Sky News, Sky Sports News, BBC Parliament CBBC, Cbeebies QVC, Bid TV , Price-drop TV , Ideal World The Hits, The Music Factory BBC Radio 1, BBC Radio 2, BBC Radio 3 ,BBC Radio 4, BBC Radio 5 Live, BBC Radio 5 Live Sports Extra, BBC Radio 6, BBC 1Xtra, BBC Radio 7, TalkSport, BBC Asian Network, BBC World Service, Smash Hits, KISS, Kerrang, Smooth FM (formerly Jazz FM), Oneword, The Hits, Q, Magic, Heat, Mojo, 3C Country & Premier Christian
BBCi, Teletext, FourText, YooPlay (Games), Hits Extra

Not everyone is prepared to pay $60 odd dollars a month for Sky and paying a one off cost of $200 for a decoder to get some extra channels I expect will be very popular.
Cost wise you certainly would not be better off with Sky.

FreeView will initially be available from a satellite so that everyone will have the opportunity to access the service provided they have the DTH FreeView-certified Set Top Box and a suitable dish. Later they will have the option of receiving FreeVIew from a local transmitter, using the DTT FreeView Set Top Box and a suitable aerial.

Graham L
15-06-2006, 06:12 PM
The UK service is their second try at it. The first, fully commercial, crammed too many channels into the system (to maximise their ad revenue) so reception was terrible. So they lost a lot of money and went bust.

The BBC are running the second try, reluctantly, with fewer than half the possible channels in use, because there are a lot of set-top boxes with the original decoders.

If the UK stuffed it up, does anyone realistically expect NZ to do better? The only way NZ learns from the experiences of overseas countries is that we wait to see that some "wonderful" (especiallly economic) "reform" or new technology is disastrous, then copy it.

tweak'e
15-06-2006, 09:55 PM
Consumers will require a NZ$200 set-top receiver to access the digital signal from either satellite or land-based transmitters, Maharey said.

please not land based digital, with NZ terian it will be crap. satelite is the way to go and frankly a whole lot cheaper. a digital sat receiver + dish is h**** of a lot cheaper than a land based analogue (or digital) set up in poorer reception aeras (ie anywhere you cannot see the tranmitter which is 50% of homes)

Hitech
15-06-2006, 10:02 PM
He also said if you dont get good reception on your aerial then you go to a satellite which in time will reduce in cost depending on how many people sign up for it,the could be as low as $75 he said and no monthly subscription charge.

tweak'e
15-06-2006, 10:10 PM
$75 ?? yeah right ! that would be just the travel charge lol.

it all depends on what sat they run it off, its power and footprint. at the moment i think full install (dish+reciver) is $500+ for the existing few channels. if the signal is stronger then you can get away with small cheaper dishes.

also just because there is a lot of them dosn't mean the price will come down by much. 2nd hand sky dishes are dime a dozen at any pub.

Hitech
15-06-2006, 10:21 PM
Sky can be installed for $99 with decoder and dish so why not $75. The signal is going to come from the same dish that sky are going to launch in september this year which is why FTA is being launched next year, tvnz and canwest etc are subleasing a transponder off skys satellite to provide the service.

zqwerty
15-06-2006, 10:30 PM
TV will soon be going the way of the dodo.

Hitech
15-06-2006, 10:47 PM
I remember years ago when i was younger people moaned their ass off cause their wasnt enough channels on tv now we get all these new channels and people moan that theirs nothing on either they are very fussy about what they watch or cant find anything else to moan about.

tweak'e
15-06-2006, 11:00 PM
Sky can be installed for $99 with decoder and dish so why not $75.
thats totally incorrect. you do not pay an install fee, its just a "connection fee". part of the monthly subscription fee is for the install.

the decoders are ~$800 the last time i checked (don't loose it otherwise you will be billed for it) the lnb alone is over $100, the mounts can be $100 on there own, the actual dish is the cheap part.

labour.. 1 hour on a real quick one, 2 hours norm (sky allows 2.5 hours, icluding teaching cust how to use it), hard install....4-8 hours. your looking $40-$50 an hour + travel costs.

Metla
15-06-2006, 11:02 PM
Anyone know if prime will be broadcast over this new system?

As for whose going to make use of it? On the news they claimed approx 90 000 existing Sky customers were on Sky for the single reason that they have no other ways of recieving TV.

For me, I'll get it just for C4 and the better picture accros the board., Granted its 90 percent crap but its only money.Last time I checked they were still printing it.

bob_doe_nz
15-06-2006, 11:11 PM
Just wait till it rains heavily :badpc:


Muahahaha;)

Hitech
15-06-2006, 11:27 PM
yes prime will be broadcast on the new freeview system.

Hitech
15-06-2006, 11:30 PM
Heres a link that goes for 37 mins this will tell you everything you want to know.

http://digital.tvnz.co.nz/

Morgenmuffel
16-06-2006, 09:21 AM
I just hope they make at least one channel for those of us who aren't interested in seeing Fat self absorbed americans either losing weight swapping spouses or living on a desert island (actually combine all three, and you have a sure fire hit "Swinging Fitness Survivor" i wonder if i can pitch the idea to fox)

Actually what i want is a british channel replete with shows that don't contain odious amounts of canned laughter, things like Time team, Have i got news for you, Never mind the buzzcocks, The complete works of David Attenborough, anything that doesn't involve reality TV or canned laughter

I do notice one station does have "later with Jools Holland" on which i must admit I do watch ocasionally simply because it has variety in it, and it doesn't have butt-licking pretty bimbette presenters, but someone who actually has been there and done that in the music scene


And of course when i become Fascist dictator of the world, any show that uses Canned laughter, will be banned, i mean if you have to tell your audience when to laugh what does that say about your show??

Ok Rant finished i have to drop the Kids at school

Cheers

Strommer
16-06-2006, 09:35 AM
Lets see if I understand this correctly...

For those of us with good free-to-air reception at the present time, Digital TV will make no difference. Correct?

Unless of course more free-to-air channels are added.

Eventually analogue transmission will stop but until then why would anyone bother paying all the extra $$ to get digital TV ?????

paulw
16-06-2006, 09:41 AM
Lets see if I understand this correctly...

For those of us with good free-to-air reception at the present time, Digital TV will make no difference. Correct?

Unless of course more free-to-air channels are added.

Eventually analogue transmission will stop but until then why would anyone bother paying all the extra $$ to get digital TV ?????

And when that analog signal is turned off and you still have 4 old TVs and a VCR, DVD recorder at home you will have to go and buy a set top box for all of them to get the same tuning function and you have now..

pctek
16-06-2006, 09:58 AM
[QUOTE=Steve_L

Eventually analogue transmission will stop but until then why would anyone bother paying all the extra $$ to get digital TV ?????[/QUOTE]
You don't. Yet. Until they turn off the analogue signal that is....

plod
16-06-2006, 11:10 AM
I can't believe the moaning here. I thought everyone would what this, as most of us here like technology. :eek:

mode3
16-06-2006, 11:26 AM
I can't believe the moaning here. I thought everyone would what this, as most of us here like technology. :eek:

We would want it if it was worth the cost and it was value for money, but more than likley we will get a crap serive, pay through the teeth for it and not everyone will be able to get it and the reception will be garbage. a bit like broadband really.

If they are having problenms with HDTV working over here what hope do they have with freeview.
I get HDTV sometimes, when the rain and wind are not battering my tv arieal :D

zqwerty
16-06-2006, 03:06 PM
Yes but what is the good of having a fantastic picture of a load of especially and particularly American crap but not excluding British crap as well, like they say you can't polish a tu*d.

(* = r)

mode3
16-06-2006, 04:30 PM
like they say you can't polish a tu*d.

(* = r)

I think you can, because telecon have been doing it for months and then offering it up a $1 a day broadband. Then we all have to deal with there constipation = Backlog and its stinking the whole place out. I know its off topic but I couldn't help myself.

maccrazy
16-06-2006, 04:58 PM
Yes but what is the good of having a fantastic picture of a load of especially and particularly American crap but not excluding British crap as wellWell, I guess digital television is going to be more appetising to those that don't hate TV. ;) I agree with you that 75% of what is on TV probably is rubbish, but it is a bit extreme when people say there is nothing to watch, because there are plenty of great programs making up the other 25%. :)

BoboTheClown
16-06-2006, 07:03 PM
Wish we could join this Aussie Pay TV though, look at the keen pricing compared to Sky: http://www.selectv.com/packages

I read somewhere a while ago that one of these networks may consider to enter the NZ market. Cannot remember which one though...

Laura
16-06-2006, 08:57 PM
Couldn't agree more with Plod.

For ages we've read moans here about the non-arrival of digital TV.
And now we're told it's coming, what happens?
More moans.

It'll cost too much...
The programmes will be dreadful...
Our TV sets will be outmoded...
etc...

Or did I miss something in the information release?
Perhaps there was an edict which said it'll be compulsory?

Shortcircuit
16-06-2006, 09:04 PM
Wish we could join this Aussie Pay TV though, look at the keen pricing compared to Sky: http://www.selectv.com/packages



Cor, wouldn't want to be Spanish :waughh:

Hitech
16-06-2006, 10:18 PM
Wrong in five years time tvs that arrive in the country will have a digital tuner built into them this will then mean you can do away with a set top box and just plug your sky or freeview cable into the back of it.

Strommer
16-06-2006, 10:22 PM
Consider time frames:

In a year or two, Digital TV won't make much difference to most of us.
But five or ten years down the track, none of us will want to go back to analoque.

Hitech
16-06-2006, 10:25 PM
Canwest bosses and tvnz bosses both said that their will be more local programming and more news channels to look forward to but i hardly think you will see much american stuff as this is freeview and if that happened they would start charging you for it.Turns out that freeview is going to be clearer in sound and picture better than sky and more interactive content such as being able to choose which camera you want to watch a live race on say bathurst and you can choose which view you want, i can just hear the v8 fans now going vroooooomm vrooooom for that option.

Standing_Amazed
17-06-2006, 03:16 PM
Canwest bosses and tvnz bosses both said that their will be more local programming and more news channels to look forward to but i hardly think you will see much american stuff as this is freeview and if that happened they would start charging you for it.

Of course there'll be heaps of yank content, ads will pay for it of course. How much local content do you think there is? Certainly nowhere near enough to fil the new channels.

paulw
17-06-2006, 06:20 PM
Of course there'll be heaps of yank content, ads will pay for it of course. How much local content do you think there is? Certainly nowhere near enough to fil the new channels.

You mean you want to see more local crap reality shows??

Cicero
17-06-2006, 07:13 PM
Yes but what is the good of having a fantastic picture of a load of especially and particularly American crap but not excluding British crap as well, like they say you can't polish a tu*d.

(* = r)
You are so right,why cant we just have NZ quality programs.
It keeps all our brilliant actors in a job.
With luck English drama will catch up.

Winston001
18-06-2006, 12:30 AM
Wish we could join this Aussie Pay TV though, look at the keen pricing compared to Sky: http://www.selectv.com/packages

I read somewhere a while ago that one of these networks may consider to enter the NZ market. Cannot remember which one though...

Isn't the problem that most satellites simply don't cover New Zealand? If you look at the globe, our part of the Southern Hemisphere is mostly ocean so the owners of satellites tend to place their orbits further north. That way they can deliver to greater populations.

So buying capacity on a satellite isn't easy over NZ and with only 4 million punters........................why bother?

BoboTheClown
20-06-2006, 09:05 AM
What I read was that one of the PanAmSat used does cover New Zealand, that's why they were considering entering the market.

Will be a capital outlay for the supplier/end user though, it means another dish (or changing the present one to the new coords) plus a new decoder.

tweak'e
20-06-2006, 11:06 AM
the problem for competion is simply trying to get mass market.

telstra (the ******eds!) tried years ago and pulled out on the launch date. the problem now is sky has mass market which means its extermly hard for a competitor to come in. it would take way to long to recoup the cost.

also in the past while there are sats that cover NZ (you will never get an NZ only sat) very few are high enough powered or have decent foot prints which would allow the use of small low cost dishes on homes. i don't know the footprint for the new ones at this stage.

tweak'e
20-06-2006, 11:08 AM
btw back to orginal Q, sat digital will be a hugr bonus to rural kiwis, it certainly makes it a cheaper optoin than installing land based aerial systems and they get perfect pictures.

forrest44
20-06-2006, 09:03 PM
I already have a free-to-air satellite TV reciever, plus two satellite dishes (one is like a sky dish and the other is about 90cm)

The sky dish recieves the Optus B1 free-to-air channels (same satelite as Sky, but no sky channels).
There are:
TV One,
TV2,
Maori TV,
DWTV (German, 50% german, 50% english)
CCTV9 (Chinese, 100% english)
NASA TV

The 90cm dish recieves the Optus B3 free-to-air channels (I believe you can use a Sky dish instead but I haven't tried).
There are:
A bunch of religous channels (3ABN, HopeTV, TBN, Daystar, JCTV, ChurchTV, GodTV)
A bunch of foreign channels (Turkey, serbia, arabic, thailand, etc)

So I can get about 20 free-to-air TV channels into my living room for the cost of a couple of dishes + a free to air satellite reciever, all crystal clear :)
Expect to pay from around $300 or so for a FTA reciever and 1 dish...

I hear rumours that TV3 and Prime are going to be free-to-air soon on Optus B1, so if that turns out to be true (is this what this threads all about??), I have all the channels I watch free, from satellites!

But then again you need Sky to watch live sport, etc.....

Cheers

maccrazy
20-06-2006, 09:41 PM
I hear rumours that TV3 and Prime are going to be free-to-air soon on Optus B1All the Freeview stations (One, TV2, Channel 3 etc) will be transmitted from Optus D and via digital terrestrial.

mode3
21-06-2006, 12:58 PM
Just seen this on one of the uk sites, the last line is the best.

from http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/article/ds34174.html

New Zealand unveils Freeview plans
Monday, June 19 2006, 23:45 BST - by Neil Wilkes

The New Zealand government has given the go-ahead to a new service modelled on Freeview in the UK.

The service - also branded Freeview - will launch early next year with the aid of a NZ$25 million (£8.4m) government investment spread over the next five years. Most of the cost will be covered by the Freeview consortium of broadcasters, which includes TVNZ, CanWest, Maori TV, Trackside and Radio New Zealand.

As well as DTT, Freeview will also operate over digital satellite. DTT boxes will retail at around NZ$200 (£67), with coverage reaching around 75% at launch. Analogue signals are expected to shut down in the next six to ten years.

"The Labour-led government wants to ensure all New Zealanders are able to enjoy the benefits of digital television, and that public broadcasting remains a strong part of the free-to-air mix," said broadcasting minister Steve Maharey. Sky Television's subscription-based DSat service has been the only digital option in the country until now.

"Now that we have established a way forward, the government is keen to see the industry roll out digital as rapidly as possible," he added. "Digital TV will mean better pictures and sound, more content to choose from, crystal clear reception, and the scarcely tapped potential of interactive TV. Programmes available on analogue will be broadcast on digital, along with the progressive introduction of new content and services as broadcasters develop them.

"Switching to digital will also benefit our economy and ensure New Zealand is not left behind in the worldwide shift to this technology." :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

tonyz
30-06-2006, 04:40 PM
spam

Metla
30-06-2006, 05:37 PM
New Zealand FreeView Shop

http://www.freeviewshop.co.nz

Im gonna presume thats your shop, so I have a question.

If I purchased one of them suckers right now is there anything bouncing around that I could tune into and watch?

maccrazy
30-06-2006, 06:00 PM
You may find this site helpful Metla: http://www.freetv.co.nz/52864/html/page.html

Obviously it relates to digital satellite rather than digital terrestrial. :)

Laura
30-06-2006, 06:12 PM
tonyz:

You need a proof reader.
It's receive .

Strommer
30-06-2006, 06:15 PM
Very interesting, maccrazy.
Lets see... a 90 cm dish + the cheapest receiver costs a total of about $230, and this gives access to seven satellites.

Sounds good, but if you are not into Kurdish, Arabic or Christian programmes, then that leaves ABC-Oz and BBC. See anything else of use, Metla?

Metla
30-06-2006, 06:21 PM
Only SBS, I used to watch their foriegn movies all the time when I was in Aussie, But thats not enough to make me spend the dosh.

Was hoping for Prime so I could watch the rugby, The alternative is to spend up on a flash harry aerial which will not only supply a crap picture but become reduntant the minute freeview is launched (provided Prime is to be broadcast, I have yet to see this listed in a format I can understand from an official source)

Strommer
30-06-2006, 06:30 PM
Don't you get Prime in WhangVegas? We get it here in the Wairarapa.

Greven
30-06-2006, 06:45 PM
prime is the best free to air channel in NZ. If it remains only available via UHF, it might slow the adoption of FTA satalite. Why would you fork out so much money for setup costs if the channel you watch the most isn't available on that service?

Strommer
30-06-2006, 07:40 PM
prime is the best free to air channel in NZ. If it remains only available via UHF,

When Prime came to our area, I had our TV system updated with a UHF antenna and new outlets to various rooms in our house. Prime is good and keeps getting better, imho, especially the 5.30 news.

Surely Metla would have a UHF antenna?! :confused:
And if the Wairarapa has Prime, surely WangVegas would have it also.

Strommer
30-06-2006, 07:43 PM
FWIW, when the antenna installer was here, he discovered why we could not get decent TV3 reception: the previous owner put up an FM antenna and used it for TV3 (they are about the same size). Ha!

Metla
30-06-2006, 07:49 PM
I'm in a poor reception spot, I can get it on my house TV but shes messy, Out where the projector is hooked up I can't get anything buyt a mess of colours (and its only 50 feet away)

Anyway, I aquired a second hand arial from my old landlord (hes a TV tech, arial installer) that he swore was in excellent working condition, and the perfect arial for Prime reception.

Mounted her on a 30 foot pole, pointed her at the signal tower, Dialed in the signal via the prime website.

Got a reguritated dogs dinner.....

Giant screen, beer fridge, 5.1 speakers, 3 heaters, couch, 6 chairs,....No bloody rugby. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Strommer
30-06-2006, 08:13 PM
Are you using a preamplifier, either at the antenna, or one next to the TV?
Antenna location for a preamp is the best, but our's is near the TV - makes all the diff!

Also be sure to use GOOD coaxial cable - this can make a big difference as well.

Metla
30-06-2006, 08:26 PM
Nope, none of the above.

Metla
30-06-2006, 08:53 PM
Correct me if im wrong but isn't a signal amplifer only of use when splitting the signal?

I have 2 arials, One for the main TV and a second one for the projector.

Strommer
30-06-2006, 10:03 PM
Preamps are usually used when splitting a signal but also for single lines.
If any doubt, simply get a DSE preamp and return it if no improvement - but only after you verify that you have the best coax available (check this with an experienced TV antenna installer, as you know, not all DSE people are up to the mark). Oh - and check those connections - indoor and outdoor - should be dry and clean; cut and reconnect (I add a bit of WD-40 as well). BTW, the length of coax can soak up the signal strength so that it is doubly important if the antenna is a long way from the TV. I'll bet a beer or two that these things will do the trick!

Strommer
30-06-2006, 10:06 PM
BTW, back in my old ham radio days, preamps were almost obligatory for frequecies of 144 Mhz and above,and this was for single lines / one antenna. Aaaaand, FWIW, we have 3 antennas on the roof connecting to one coax line which is then split four ways. Picture quality is A-1.

tweak'e
30-06-2006, 11:35 PM
I'm in a poor reception spot

what aerial system does your niebhours have?


hooked up I can't get anything buyt a mess of colours

either you have the wrong channel tuned in, the wires shorted out or big ghosting problems.


(Steve_L) Are you using a preamplifier, either at the antenna, or one next to the TV? they are just called amps or boosters. pre-amps are amps which go before the amp. not comman but you can get them. the best are the ones that replace the balun and bolt directly to the aerial.

if the pic isn't snowy then an amp isn't going to help. if the pic is what i think it is an amp will make it worse.

Metla
30-06-2006, 11:53 PM
either you have the wrong channel tuned in, the wires shorted out or big ghosting problems.



Uh...no, I have a weak signal, as does everyone in my area and a good portion of the population of Wanganui.Other channels work perfectly.

The wires are perfect, and the channel is set manually as per the prime website-Wanganui 51 711.25.

tweak'e
30-06-2006, 11:57 PM
weak signal is a "snowy" picture not a "mess of colours". colours smeared across the screen is often ghosting related.

Metla
01-07-2006, 12:01 AM
Prime watched on the main tv in the house is littered in snow and unstable, watchable (at poor quality) about 70 percent of the time....though the picture has a habit of disapearing for a few seconds at random times....

Other setup is via TV card/PC/ Projector, Coloured snow :(

Metla
01-07-2006, 12:07 AM
a screenie...

http://www.imagef1.net.nz/files/Image0630-2301(TV51).jpg

tweak'e
01-07-2006, 12:11 AM
LMAO !

thats not weak signal......that no signal what so ever. an amp isn't going to fix that, amping nothing gives you a whole lot of nothing !

check for bad connections or broken cable.

Metla
01-07-2006, 12:16 AM
Like I said, other channels work fine, Plus when a channel is selected that has no signal broadcast there is no colour, and when I rotate the arial I can get a vague image.

Connections and cable are fine.

Laura
01-07-2006, 12:17 AM
Sure that's not a pic of your carpet?
My neighbour has one just like it.

Metla
01-07-2006, 12:20 AM
Sure that's not a pic of your carpet?
My neighbour has one just like it.

To be honest its a hand created artwork I made in Photoshop, Its taken 4 years to do, If you stare at it long enough 3D images of Hansel and Gretal appear.

I've just been waiting for an excuse to show it off....

Strommer
01-07-2006, 12:22 AM
Tweak, amateur radio operators used the term "preamplifier" referring to a component that would boost the rf signal before it reached the receiver. This was to make a distinction from "amplifiers" aka "amps" which were either high power RF (for transmitting) or the old stereo sound system.

However I notice on the DSE website they are in fact called "amplifiers", as you say. Example from this page (http://www.geocities.com/toddemslie/UHF-TV-DX.html) : "Tropospheric scatter reception over distances up to around 300 miles, averages 10 - 20 microvolts, with the use of a high gain 16dB UHF deep fringe TV antenna and 2dB (170K°) noise figure masthead preamplifier." I guess it depends what group of people are using the terminology.

Although I have erected :D and fiddled with many HF, VHF and UHF antennas since I was a kid in school, I did not want to try and drill holes through 100 year rimu while crawling in the roof area (for TV points in various rooms). So I splashed out and got a professional. Good thing too, because he had a $2k signal meter and used it to fine tune the system.

Metla, try this from DSE (http://www.dse.co.nz/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/44a502e30a7e8b32273fc0a87f990716/Product/View/L4219) and see if it works. Return it for the great DSE refund if its a no go. But as I said, be sure you have quality coax and clean dry connectors.

As Tweak says "the best are the ones that replace the balun and bolt directly to the aerial." The DSE model referred to above sits next to the TV, not on the aerial mast, but its easier to use and keep dry! Tweak makes the point about the "snow", but if you don't mind going to DSE it is worth a try anyway. You could try to get a masthead preamp from a TV aerial shop but they may want to install it, or not give a refund if it does not do the trick.

BTW, while I cannot recall the type of low-loss coax we have, it is different from what I used 20 - 40 years ago! :p

tweak'e
01-07-2006, 12:24 AM
have you got the aerial the right way up? (horizontal/vertical)
i do take it that aerial is wired direct to tv and not joined to other aerials ??

otherwise not much else i can suggest without being there.

edit: just to be clear, mast head amps and pre amps are two different things. you can have a preamp (built into the balun box on the aerial) which then connects to a mast head amp, which then can be amped further by a distribution amp (ie next to the tv) so signal can be sent around the house to muiltable tv's. i hope that dosn't confuse things ;)

Metla
01-07-2006, 12:29 AM
Alrighty, What I may do is replace the lot, I would apreciate it if the required items could be pointed out on the DSE site.

Antenna
cables
connections.
booster.

any idea if the L0040 is worthy of the job?

Metla
01-07-2006, 12:32 AM
have you got the aerial the right way up? (horizontal/vertical)
i do take it that aerial is wired direct to tv and not joined to other aerials ??

otherwise not much else i can suggest without being there.

I have it vertical, I presume thats how its meant to be?

Anyhow, Its highly likely its my dodgy cable making thats the issue, Though I intend to deny it to the death.

Cheers for the input.

Strommer
01-07-2006, 12:35 AM
Yikes! No picture at all ! Something is very wrong.

From this site: (http://www.dba.org.au/index.asp?sectionID=25)

I've heard that it is important to measure signal levels, even in simple domestic installations. Why is this?

Simply to ensure that all signal levels are within the operating window of the receiver. Signal levels that are too high can impair or prevent reception. Signal levels that are too low can sometimes go over the Digital Cliff. For a reliable installation, both of these conditions must be avoided. Generally, installers who check signal levels have far fewer return visits.

Exactly what kind of antenna do you have? Look at the 16 db gain antenna on this page. (http://fox40.trb.com/about/station/ktxl-uhf,0,1731342.htmlstory) Also from this page:

Booster Amplifiers
All televisions sets, particularly older ones, add some noise or "snow" to weak UHF signals. A booster (or preamplifier) may reduce the snow, but first be sure a good antenna installation is in place. Keep in mind, outdoor booster antenna are more efficient than indoor models mounted at the set.

A decent high gain antenna with an amplifier to boost the signal, would have to work - but there are problems with too much signal which would be a funny case if you finally got to this point!

tweak'e
01-07-2006, 12:36 AM
i would simply get a tech in to do a signal test, as you may be wasting your time. even with too low a signal to get a decent picture out of, there is usually a lot more of a pic on the screen that what you have.

it may be cheaper to get sky sat, wait till the free to air sat comes in, ditch the sky and use the dish for the free to air. much cheaper than what the aerial system will cost you.

Metla
01-07-2006, 12:44 AM
hmmm....Sky Sat is over 60 a month, for a minumum 12 month contract, then if freeview isnt launched by this time next year I will have to continue with it just for the rugby,...$1500.

For that amount of money I could watch every game at the pub and quench my thirst at the same time.

Prime's site has this

If you live where Prime’s UHF signal is available, installation of a UHF aerial and tune-in will cost $145 including GST.

and then this

# If you live where Prime’s UHF signal is not available, you can now install a SKY Digital dish and decoder, with the Prime Television service only, at a cost of $145 including GST. (The decoder rental will be waived for this connection).

which is what I would like.

What I want to avoid is spending the dosh and ending up with a poor picture, any defect blown up to wall size looks a tad ugly.

Strommer
01-07-2006, 12:46 AM
Alrighty, What I may do is replace the lot, I would apreciate it if the required items could be pointed out on the DSE site.
Antenna
cables
connections.
booster.

OK, I already gave you the booster URL. As for the cable, look here. (http://www.dse.co.nz/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/44a50d730c0cdd62273fc0a87f990714/Product/View/W1201)
As you can see, it is not cheap. Might be better to check with an electrical place that caters for tradesmen. They would also be able to advise you of the correct type, or refer you to a friendly installer who would not mind giving you advice.

The antenna (http://www.dse.co.nz/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/44a50edb0c5282ee273fc0a87f99074c/Product/View/L4711)
would be something like this DSE one. Again, it may be best to try where the aerial installers go. BTW, these high gain yagi antennas must be aimed just right. I can picture you having Mrs Metla up on the roof while you yell at her to point it this way or that way. :lol:

Strommer
01-07-2006, 12:50 AM
i would simply get a tech in to do a signal test, as you may be wasting your time. even with too low a signal to get a decent picture out of, there is usually a lot more of a pic on the screen that what you have.

:thumbs:

Get a quote for the signal test, or simply tell them where you live and ask if it is a bad spot.

And while you are at it, ask for a quote or at least an estimate for them doing the entire job.

Metla
01-07-2006, 12:52 AM
cheers, though the antenna is mounted on a pole attached to the wall with bent over 6 inch nails, I can just open the window and rotate it at will (with a bit of effort). Asking Mrs Metla to go up on the roof would have me eating toast for tea for the next year.

Which reminds me, my neigbour just erected a new antenna (he cant get prime either) after much discusion amonst themselves he was instructed by his wife to point it in the same direction I had mine.

He came over the other day and asked me to stop rotating my damn antenna, as everytime his wife compares them they are different and he gets it in the neck for not doing as told.....

Strommer
01-07-2006, 09:02 AM
Asking Mrs Metla to go up on the roof would have me eating toast for tea for the next year.
...He came over the other day and asked me to stop rotating my damn antenna, as everytime his wife compares them they are different and he gets it in the neck for not doing as told.....

Good one Metla. :lol:

Keep us informed of your progress. It will be informative and certainly amusing I am sure. I have heard people talk of not being able to get TV reception due to being in a bad area, but I think its mostly bullocks. With a proper antenna and all the rest, everyone should be able to get all free to air TV as long as they are not in the wop wops far away from the transmission. But I have yet to get a definitive answer on this from an experienced TV aerial installer. Hmmmnn, just thought... the son of a friend of mine changed jobs and is now an aerial installer so I'll ring and ask him for info.

Back to coaxial cable: cheap coax, even if new, can attenuate UHF signals a huge amount (not so with lower frequency VHF channels such as TV3 in our area or FM radio). Add a few years, moisture and poor connections, plus a low gain antenna pointed in the wrong direction, and it all adds up to a snowy picture such as what you have.

Bazza
01-07-2006, 10:58 AM
Good one Metla. :lol:


Back to coaxial cable: cheap coax, even if new, can attenuate UHF signals a huge amount (not so with lower frequency VHF channels such as TV3 in our area or FM radio). Add a few years, moisture and poor connections, plus a low gain antenna pointed in the wrong direction, and it all adds up to a snowy picture such as what you have.

As Steve says, the attenuation in coax at UHF is very much greater than VHF.
This is very significant. How long is your coax Metla, from antenna to receiver? Can you receive other UHF channels better than Prime? Or are they all bad.

I live in a very good signal area, but reception of UHF is poor via about 40 feet of coax from the roof UHF/VHF antenna. VHF is fine. I get better UHF reception using rabbits ears at the TV, so avoiding the UHF losses in the coax length.

Metla
01-07-2006, 11:08 AM
hmmmmm....there are other UHF channels?

Ok, I'll have to come clean, The coax cable im using came off a demolition job, It could be 20 years old for all I know, And Ive been hacking it to bits and joining it together for years with sticky tape.

Lmfao.

Guess I should **** and go buy some real cable.

Strommer
01-07-2006, 12:01 PM
Ok, I'll have to come clean, The coax cable im using came off a demolition job, It could be 20 years old for all I know, And Ive been hacking it to bits and joining it together for years with sticky tape.

:lol: Gawd, I love it, love it ! What would I do for laughs without the WangVegas Wrestler??!! :rolleyes:

Graham L
01-07-2006, 02:25 PM
From a demolition it might be 50 ohm cable (from a Ethernet network), not 75 ohm. Not a good move for TV (especially UHF). If it's marked "RG58", it's 50 ohm.

Metla
01-07-2006, 02:53 PM
Well.....it was hooked up to an antenna when I found it..... :D

Metla
01-07-2006, 08:12 PM
Antenna-$65
cable and fittings-$70
Booster-$40
Time-two hours

New improved picture-Priceless

http://www.imagef1.net.nz/files/Image0701-1741(TV51)%5B1%5D.jpg

Strommer
01-07-2006, 08:17 PM
YeeeGads! Something is wrong, obviously.
Tuning?
Antenna direction?
Your TV? (maybe try another one)

Well, the antenna and booster can be returned if DSE, but before you do this talk to a professional installer to get the guff via a signal strength meter.

Metla
01-07-2006, 08:39 PM
Nah, bit of a joke, drove past DSE, couldn't see a park so didn't stop.

That screenie was taken after I rotated antenna....

Strommer
01-07-2006, 08:46 PM
OK OK. Should've known!
Was sitting here figuring you had the wrong frequency of Prime.

So you are gonna try DSE when they open early tomorrow morning, right?

BTW, do you get sound so that you know it is in fact Prime?

Twelvevolts
01-07-2006, 10:26 PM
Now let me see - 70% of what I watch is only available on the internet, another 20% I get off the internet because I can't wait for NZ television to show it, and the other 10% is Sky Sport. Ok I watch the news occasionally but otherwise TV is dead.

Strommer
09-07-2006, 09:24 PM
Update, Metla ?