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Barnzy
15-11-2005, 02:23 PM
I've been trying to download Linux distros using Bitcomet through the woosh voip gateway and so only get " local" connections and no "remotes". The download speed is around 3KBps. If I try bypassing the gateway using usb I get "Remotes" & "Local" connections with no increase in down speed, or up speed, and the system becomes very unstable and I lose the phone, of course. I've opened appropriate ports and configured win xp firewall and suspended Zone Alarm. I could use port forwarding if I could find the port No. of the gateway but Woosh seem reticent to give me any help on this. I get the impression that Woosh is throttling bittorrent traffic but again I can't get a staight answer from them. With their data cap I suspect using bittorrent is a bit dumb as the amount of time it takes allows so much up traffic that to download 500megs costs me around 700meg meaning a total of around 1.2 Gig.
Any comments or help on this would be most welcome.

"A bad carpenter thinks his shiny, new tools are going to save his sorry ass from oblivion"

MikeS
16-11-2005, 02:11 AM
Can you change the port in that bitcomet program?

Can you forward the ports that the bitcomet program uses?

What's the woosh voip gateway?

Barnzy
16-11-2005, 08:20 AM
Can you change the port in that bitcomet program?

Can you forward the ports that the bitcomet program uses?

What's the woosh voip gateway?
Yes to the port changing..............Why?
I could forward the ports........Why?
The gateway is a router type device for the voip but Woosh are evasive about port numbers.

MikeS
16-11-2005, 10:04 AM
They have VOIP with Woosh now? What's it like, a radio conversation?

Hello, how are you? Over.
<3 seconds later>
I'm good, what's happening? Over.
...

Anyway, does the gateway have a configuration thing you can use? Use Shareaza or something, it works well enough without port forwarding.

Barnzy
16-11-2005, 10:47 AM
The quality is about the same as Cellphone and it's only 10c a minute international and free local, buisness and residential, the gateway has no configuration app/interface.
I suspect the gateway config is to do with your phone number as in s/n for cellphones but not sure on that. Anyone have any clues on this?
Using bitcomet, I managed to get speeds of 16 kBps/128kbps by changing the allowed connections to go upto 10000 instead of the default 30-60 (it seemed to settle on its own at around 600 connections, by default Winxp only allows 10 so you have to change that). As torrents are a 2 way thing the upload rate affects the download rate so maybe I'm maxed out. :D

Graham L
16-11-2005, 01:33 PM
Let's get this straight.

Woosh have provided a VOIP system, which uses a "gateway" of its own. This is presumably intended to maintain an acceptable " Quality of Service", to make it acceptable for speech use.

And you are trying to (ab)use their VOIP bandwidth to download (and upload) many megabytes of data.

I'm not surprised Woosh are reluctant to help you do "better". ;)

Barnzy
17-11-2005, 10:28 AM
Not at all. Woosh supplies a "broadband" internet service 500kbps which runs through a router/gateway that allows viop. I am using my, paid for, bandwidth to do what anyone else does ie. surf the web, eMail and the exchange of files. My query is whether woosh is throttling bandwidth for bittorrent files and if the are why can't they be honest about it.

Graham L
17-11-2005, 03:08 PM
Wrong, Barnzy.

You are abusing their system. Woosh's telephone VOIP service is separate from the basic Internet data service.

"Data sent as a result of the phone call is not included in your monthly high-speed data usage allowance". So you are actually trying to rip them off.

"... The Woosh phone service utilises technology that allows the network to prioritize your call ..." So you if you manage to get huge data flows, you are likely to bugger up the calls of people using it as it is intended to be used, for phone calls.

DangerousDave
17-11-2005, 04:34 PM
Most ISPs limit Bittorrent, this is because it is slowly strangling the internet. I should also point out that the idea of bittorrent is to share. Cohen doesn't care that you have a cap, he is interested in people giving back some of the bandwidth they take rather than leeching.

Barnzy
17-11-2005, 08:08 PM
Graham. I am not wrong. I pay for a broadband service that includes voip, not an exclusive viop service. yes they do priorotise viop and so I am not abusing that service. If I were abusing it then they should tell me. AND
"Data sent as a result of the phone call is not included in your monthly high-speed data usage allowance" is what they say, but when you check your usage it is there in black and white (or black and green if your that behind the times) and if you want to accuse me of ripping someone off I take that as a personal deflamatory accusation and will report your post.
Understand this. I pay for a service and any restriction of the sevice I pay for should be explained by the ISP (Woosh) this has not been done.
Dave. I understand that most ISP's limit bottorrent but it would be "nice" to be told by the ISP that this is the case.
As for strangling the internet I would put the blame squarley at the door of Telecom.

DangerousDave
18-11-2005, 12:02 AM
As for strangling the internet I would put the blame squarley at the door of Telecom.

Here we go again, Telecom bashing. Great stuff. Bittorrent is very efficient, its great, a great idea by a brilliant programmer. It may be too efficient however. If telecom provided a fatter pipe, more would go towards bittorrent, its proportional.

MikeS
18-11-2005, 02:10 AM
Wrong, Barnzy.

You are abusing their system. Woosh's telephone VOIP service is separate from the basic Internet data service.
It runs on the same internet account they just inspect the TCP/IP header and if it's a VOIP packet then they don't charge you for it.

You can't accuse him of ripping them off.

Barnabas
18-11-2005, 05:36 AM
Ill keep it simple...yes they do throttle bittorrent traffic and no I wont tell you how I know. Believe or dont but those are the facts.

B.

Greven
18-11-2005, 08:32 AM
It runs on the same internet account they just inspect the TCP/IP header and if it's a VOIP packet then they don't charge you for it.

Does that mean that WOOSH users won't be able to use their VOIP phone while they are saturating their connection with downloads, or do they use a different method of setting the speed than limiting the connection between the ISP & the modem?

Barnzy
18-11-2005, 09:30 AM
Thank you Barnabas, that is what I suspected.
And thank you MikeS, Woosh told me yesterday that they don't charge for bandwidth for the voip, which for me came out at just over .2Mb for the month(they just charge you a $25 flat fee per month)
Greven, They priorotise voip bandwidth and there is software that can priorotise port usage port 80 for http, port 110 for pop3 and port25 for stmp. they could , theoreticly block bittorrent or any thing they want to completely.
And Dangerous Dave, keep on sticking up for Telecom yeah, they'll bend over backwards to help us all get better broadband...............not!!!

Graham L
18-11-2005, 02:02 PM
It runs on the same internet account they just inspect the TCP/IP header and if it's a VOIP packet then they don't charge you for it.

You can't accuse him of ripping them off.

I merely suggested that he was trying to rip them off. :D It was quite clear from the tone of his first two posting that he considered all data to be the same ...


He was trying to use the prioritised, uncharged, channel intended for VOIP use to transfer huge data files.

It seems that they know what they are doing. ;)

The data use is added to his account. I would guess that any (non-VOIP) data packets won't get the priority either, so if they have a separate "gateway" for VOIP, all he is doing is cluttering that port with traffic it shouldn't be handling.

No advantage to him; but a disadvantage to Woosh and people trying to use the system properly.

There are arguments that Telecom are spoiling the Internet. It's greedy individuals who spoil things for everyone.

Barnzy
18-11-2005, 02:38 PM
Ghaham, you assume a lot and you seem to have very little understanding of the subject. Let me try and explain this to you.

The Gateway (this is the term Woosh uses) is a router that my wireless connection to woosh passes through to seperate voip from other data. It has a plug on it that I plug my household phone system into, I am not connected to Telecom.
The Gateway (router) has an ethernet port which I then plug into my ethernet card which, in turn, allows programs on my computer to access the internet How much data I choose to download is controlled by a data cap, in my case 3 gig.

You say:
"It was quite clear from the tone of his first two posting that he considered all data to be the same ..."
Here's how it works, it's digital, it's all 1s & 0s, it is the same.

You say:
"He was trying to use the prioritised, uncharged, channel intended for VOIP use to transfer huge data files."
To do that I would have to change the header of every single packet to make the system think I was making a telephone call. If I did that the traffic would just get dumped onto the phone system then be dumped as junk data.

You say:
"The data use is added to his account. I would guess that any (non-VOIP) data packets won't get the priority either, so if they have a separate "gateway" for VOIP, all he is doing is cluttering that port with traffic it shouldn't be handling."
You seem to know nothing about port fowarding, this allows the "internet" to see your computer through a router or firewall. Any attempt to use the port used for voip would be blocked as that port is reserved by the gateway.

You say
"No advantage to him; but a disadvantage to Woosh and people trying to use the system properly."
No disadvantage to anybody. The exchange of files is what the internet was invented for. I can only assume that you think the "proper" use of the systen is to bandy about accusations based on nothing but your assumtions.

You say:
"There are arguments that Telecom are spoiling the Internet. It's greedy individuals who spoil things for everyone."
Were you referring to Theresa Gattung?

Get off you high horse and go away and get some knowledge of the subject before you annoy, not only me but other members of this forum.

Graham L
18-11-2005, 02:54 PM
:D

DangerousDave
18-11-2005, 04:30 PM
haha

Big John
19-11-2005, 05:31 AM
Most ISPs limit Bittorrent, this is because it is slowly strangling the internet. I should also point out that the idea of bittorrent is to share. Cohen doesn't care that you have a cap, he is interested in people giving back some of the bandwidth they take rather than leeching.

Impossible to limit unless you stick to one port that the are shaping or they are shaping everything. Most clients can change ports at will and simply by-passes the usual ports. You can choose any you like.

Barnzy
19-11-2005, 10:18 AM
Impossible to limit unless you stick to one port that the are shaping or they are shaping everything. Most clients can change ports at will and simply by-passes the usual ports. You can choose any you like.

Or they may do it using IP Service Control to priorotise bandwidth.


Very good Flash demo on this site
http://www.p-cube.com/indexold.shtml

Greven
19-11-2005, 10:19 AM
Impossible to limit unless you stick to one port that the are shaping or they are shaping everything. Most clients can change ports at will and simply by-passes the usual ports. You can choose any you like.

I'm pretty sure they use packet inspection these days so it won't matter what port you use.

DangerousDave
19-11-2005, 11:56 AM
It doesn't matter what port it is leaving your computer, its still running through the same protocol. It can be tracked. They limit it for a reason.

Graham L
19-11-2005, 02:07 PM
This character doesn't seem to understand that he has two different services. One is a "telephone line". The data packets used in that get priority, so the voice quality will be acceptable, and aren't counted as part of the limit on his plan for the other, "data", service. The gateway for the telephone service is not meant to be handling Internet data transfers. That's what the standard gateways are for. Of course, any data packets sent though the phone host won't get the VOIP priority (if I was the system administrator, I'd make sure such rogue packets got a special QOS peak rate of 1 bit/second ;) ), and will be counted in the data service total. But it is an unnecessary load on the host handling the VOIP service. It is totally pointless. Just because it's possible to do it doesn't mean that it's a good idea.

I'll try to make an analogy which he might understand. Some places have bus lanes, so buses can move faster without interference from all the cars carrying one person. Every so often some ignorant car driver decides that "the roads are intended for getting from point A to point B" , and he can move much faster in the bus lane. Such idiots also think that lane might be a good place to park. :D

Anyone who thinks that "all data is the same -- 1 or 0" has obviously had very sheltered technical life. I've built computers --- not by plugging in manufactured cards like Lego components; with a soldering iron and wirewrap tool. I was networking computers long before there were IBM PCs, or even TCP/IP, and I know there is always a range of high, low maybe, sometimes, never, nearly. And that's just the signal levels. Then there's FM, MFM, Manchester, PE, PPM, FSK, and many more before you get to the protocols.

VOIP packets are for the phone service, and should go through the host designated by Woosh for that service. Other TCP/IP packets are for the data service, and should go through the host (or hosts) designated by the ISP for that service.

I'll continue to take an active part in PressF1, especially if it annoys Barnzy.

And then there were three ...

Big John
19-11-2005, 02:23 PM
It doesn't matter what port it is leaving your computer, its still running through the same protocol. It can be tracked. They limit it for a reason.

Well dont limit it on mine. I get well over 170KB/sec on the 2Mb plan when using BitTorrent.

DangerousDave
19-11-2005, 02:50 PM
Congratulations, you're killing the internet.

Barnzy
19-11-2005, 04:48 PM
GRAHAM L....CAN YOU HEAR ME? I"M NOT USING THE VOIP PORT FOR DATA ALL MY TRAFFIC GOES THROUGH THE "GATEWAY"!!!!!!!!!!
Oh what's the point. The guy can't even read.

dbs
19-11-2005, 05:37 PM
graham. u just dont get it plez read the first few posts in the thread again.

fairly sure that if they were going to throttle, it wont matter what port u change to. the filters check the packet headers nowdays.

Big John
19-11-2005, 06:22 PM
Congratulations, you're killing the internet.

Tough!!!!!

I pay for a 2M connection and what I do with it is MY business and if I want to use that full 2M bandwidth I will.

Currently screaming down at 240KB/sec 350MB in about 20 minutes.

Time Telecom got their sh?t togeather and started planning for this sort of thing. They have plenty of room left on their cable and they should open it even more so we are not a 3rd world country when it comes to broadband.

Graham L
20-11-2005, 02:11 PM
graham. u just dont get it plez read the first few posts in the thread again.

fairly sure that if they were going to throttle, it wont matter what port u change to. the filters check the packet headers nowdays.

dbs: I read the first few posts. Read my posts.

I get it all right. I don't give a fourpenny whether ISPs throttle bittorrent or not.

This questioner found he could send bittorrent stuff through the host which Woosh has set up for use with their VOIP service. Because VOIP needs streaming type transfers, not normal scheduling, and the bytes produced in VOIP phone calls aren't counted as part of the Internet plan limit, he thought he was on to a good thing. Then he complained because it wasn't going as fast as he wanted.
Then he got abusive because he didn't like being told he was trying to abuse the system.

Barnzy
20-11-2005, 02:37 PM
dbs: I read the first few posts. Read my posts.
We Read yours, they're stupid.


I get it all right.
No you Do Not. This is obvious because you still insist I am using a dedicated VOIP sevice to transfer Data, I am not and you are stupud.


This questioner found he could send bittorrent stuff through the host which Woosh has set up for use with their VOIP service.
Simply not true, read the posts, you're guessing, you're stupid.


Because VOIP needs streaming type transfers, not normal scheduling, and the bytes produced in VOIP phone calls aren't counted as part of the Internet plan limit, he thought he was on to a good thing.
No I didn't, once again, read the posts, once again, you're stupid


Then he complained because it wasn't going as fast as he wanted.
Wrong again, I asked a question as to weather Woosh was limiting Bittorrent and you started accusing me of abusing the system because you assumed I was using the VOIP bandwidth, wrong. Once again, read the posts, once again, you're stupid.


Then he got abusive because he didn't like being told he was trying to abuse the system.
Wrong again I said;

Not at all. Woosh supplies a "broadband" internet service 500kbps which runs through a router/gateway that allows viop. I am using my, paid for, bandwidth to do what anyone else does ie. surf the web, eMail and the exchange of files. My query is whether woosh is throttling bandwidth for bittorrent files and if the are why can't they be honest about it.

So, all in all you have proved you have no understanding of the subject and seem to be unable to be able to read, perhaps you're :lol: STUPID?

Ok Chill, you can ban me if you like but if GreyhumL is going to stick arround there is, obviously, little room for intelligent discussion on this forum.

DangerousDave
20-11-2005, 03:58 PM
All this talk reminds me of this (http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2004/20040319h.jpg)

Chilling_Silence
20-11-2005, 09:54 PM
Barnzy, you're banned!

You seem to know its coming, so I figure "why make it temporary?".

58 posts hardly counts as a good enough contribution to keep a UserID

Prescott
20-11-2005, 09:57 PM
hell if i had broadband, id abuse the system too.

its my internet connection and ill download as much as i want, capped or uncapped.

Greven
21-11-2005, 08:42 AM
just for intrests sake, which one of them was right regarding whether woosh uses a dedicated VOIP service, or shares the internet bandwidth & is prioritised.