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Cicero
10-02-2005, 07:43 PM
Last month I received a bill from the above,$390 more than it should have been,rang them up and it was agreed that they had charged me hourly and also for value pack($27.95),said he would pass credit.
This month I get the bill including the above mentioned 390,ring up again,now they tell me the 390 was the amount that accumulated from my accessing my email for about a month prior to to going on the value pack do da.This they say is charged out at $2.5 an hour,at this point I should mention that I had retained my email a/c at $2.81 a month and had bee looking at it via other peoples computers.
Lets say they can charge to access email,the fact is nobody told me there was a charge and therefore no contract,what do you think?
I hope that is clear,I can tell you it was difficult with them.
At the moment,they are discussing if I should,or will get the credit.

Metla
10-02-2005, 07:47 PM
......if you dance with the devil.......

Cicero
10-02-2005, 07:52 PM
......if you dance with the devil.......
So true Met,rest assured I wont if this is not resolved to my satisfaction.

manicminer
10-02-2005, 08:02 PM
Oh well...Xtra are just Telecom in disguise so this sort of treatment they dish out to customers is not unusual. Hate to say it, and it's been said time and time again, but this is what can happen when a monopoly runs the whole show.

I've had endless problems with Telecom billing me incorrectly too so you're not alone. And every time, of course, they say it's never their fault.

I would be nice to say 'boycott' Telecom, but unfortunately we're stuck with them, unless of course you're lucky enough to have either cable or a good Wired Country service.

FoxyMX
10-02-2005, 08:06 PM
now they tell me the 390 was the amount that accumulated from my accessing my email for about a month prior to to going on the value pack do da.This they say is charged out at $2.5 an hour,at this point I should mention that I had retained my email a/c at $2.81 a month and had bee looking at it via other peoples computers.
Lets say they can charge to access email,the fact is nobody told me there was a charge and therefore no contract,what do you think?
Do/did you leave your own computer connected to the internet whilst viewing your emails from other people's computers? If so and you logged on to your account then Xtra would have been charging you an extra $2.50 per hour.

From Xtra's Terms and Conditions (http://www.xtra.co.nz/products/0,,11955,00.html):

If more than one user logs on at the same time using the same user ID you will incur additional charges at a rate of $2.50 per hour. We will also charge at that rate for any subsequent users logging on with that username or login ID.

Still sounds quite a lot if they want $390 extra for the month though. :confused:

ninja
10-02-2005, 08:40 PM
Get the feeling there's more to this than is being let on.

Cicero
10-02-2005, 08:42 PM
Sorry I should have said,the only time I logged on via other computers was when I didn't have access to my own for 12 months.
Come to think of it why didn't they bill for that period?
The period mentioned was from 9th dec to 20th Jan.$390.

Cicero
10-02-2005, 08:56 PM
Get the feeling there's more to this than is being let on.
I can only tell it as I see it and am not in the habit of leaving bits out to suit my argument.

PaulD
10-02-2005, 10:17 PM
So you were using other peoples computers but logging into Xtra using your details. Did you have that much email that it took 150 hours or so online to deal with? Or did you leave your connection details on the computer for anyone to use? You wouldn't have been charged to access your mail via Xtra Webmail using someone elses flat rate account.

Cicero
10-02-2005, 10:33 PM
So you were using other peoples computers but logging into Xtra using your details. Did you have that much email that it took 150 hours or so online to deal with? Or did you leave your connection details on the computer for anyone to use? You wouldn't have been charged to access your mail via Xtra Webmail using someone elses flat rate account.
I am sure there has to be a mistake,but as yet the buggers won't admit it,we will see!.
They said,because asked that very question,that I accessing my emaill address I would be charged and not the computer owner.
Believe me when I say I didn't spend 150 hrs on email,as you all can well imagine,nobody emails me.

PaulD
10-02-2005, 10:47 PM
From Xtra
"An Xtra email account costs $2.81 per month (incl GST).

If you want to use this account to access the Internet via Xtra's network, you will also be charged an additional $2.50 per hour (incl GST)"

So even though Xtra only allow you to access their mail servers through XtraMail or the Xtra network, you only get charged the hourly rate if you are using YOUR logon to dial onto the net. That's why I asked if it was possible the computer was left with your connection as the default dialup.

ninja
10-02-2005, 10:48 PM
Can we try being a bit clearer. When using other peoples computers, were you using their dial up connection? Or dialing up using your details?

Cicero
10-02-2005, 10:55 PM
From Xtra
"An Xtra email account costs $2.81 per month (incl GST).

If you want to use this account to access the Internet via Xtra's network, you will also be charged an additional $2.50 per hour (incl GST)"

So even though Xtra only allow you to access their mail servers through XtraMail or the Xtra network, you only get charged the hourly rate if you are using YOUR logon to dial onto the net. That's why I asked if it was possible the computer was left with your connection as the default dialup.
Not quite sure what you mean,the only access I had was via web mail and only had the $2.80 a/c.

Cicero
10-02-2005, 10:58 PM
Can we try being a bit clearer. When using other peoples computers, were you using their dial up connection? Or dialing up using your details?
I used their dial up connection and from there went to xtra webmail.

Murray P
10-02-2005, 11:15 PM
I used their dial up connection and from there went to xtra webmail.

Then it would seem you are being diddled.

Cicero
10-02-2005, 11:27 PM
Then it would seem you are being diddled.
The puzzling thing for me is there has been no mention of the times I had accessed the email a/c other than from the 9th till the 20th.

Anyway thank you all,The telecom woman has asked Helen if public hanging,drawing and quartering could be introduced in this case,she has acquiesced,so no need to guess what I look like,will see you at the gallows.

ninja
10-02-2005, 11:57 PM
I used their dial up connection and from there went to xtra webmail.Can you not go there: https://selfservice.xtra.co.nz/live/selfservice/viewUsageAndBilling/pgLogin

This should give you a detailed breakdown of the purported usage. Including call times and sessions etc.

I'm get the feeling you're miscommunicating this. What is listed as the actual description for the $300 odd charge?

Cicero
11-02-2005, 01:15 AM
Can you not go there: https://selfservice.xtra.co.nz/live/selfservice/viewUsageAndBilling/pgLogin

This should give you a detailed breakdown of the purported usage. Including call times and sessions etc.

I'm get the feeling you're miscommunicating this. What is listed as the actual description for the $300 odd charge?
Additional on line services....$347.16
The girl definitely told me it was for email access only,now I see it was indeed for internet.

godfather
11-02-2005, 01:26 AM
If you logged on to the internet using your Xtra login and password in the dial-up box, on someone elses computer, and never disconnected then the entire remainder of that session would be to your cost.

Or, if you logged onto the internet using your Xtra login and password in the dial-up box on someone elses computer, and never reset the login (and had the "remember this password" box ticked) then every time they logged in after that it could have been using your cached login details to the internet, at your cost.

The only place you should have put your login and password into it is on the Xtramail webpage, after you had accessed the internet using their login and password. Then there would have been no extra hourly charge at all.

Murray P
11-02-2005, 09:58 AM
The only place you should have put your login and password into it is on the Xtramail webpage, after you had accessed the internet using their login and password. Then there would have been no extra hourly charge at all.


I used their dial up connection and from there went to xtra webmail.

From Thomas' description of how he connected via their dialup and used webmail (using a browser), I took it that that is exactly how it happened.

Would not the session end, even if he downloaded emails, once the browser was closed or soon thereafter? Could a saved form information or password manager (as per FF's) have logged him on at a later date via a different user? Would this make any difference if using webmail and not the email service? I don't think so.

Goddie, too warm in your bedroom last night was it?

godfather
11-02-2005, 11:48 AM
If he entered his logon and password in their dial-up box, then the issue could still be happening.

They could be logging on blindly unaware that it is Cicero's connection they are using, and if he is already logged on via his own PC at home, the charge accumulates.

Hence it could be a somewhat urgent issue to return to their PC and fix it?

There would be no way a concurrent hourly charge would occur by just logging onto webmail as I see it, only by logging onto the ISP at connect time.

FoxyMX
11-02-2005, 12:13 PM
I don't use Xtra so I have no idea how items appear on their bills but wouldn't it say somewhere that there are two accounts being used concurrently?? Or do they just lump it all together?

(And no, Godfather, you may not just give one 'yes' as an answer to those questions ;))

Murray P
11-02-2005, 01:26 PM
If he entered his logon and password in their dial-up box, then the issue could still be happening.

Sorry, I just re-read my post, I wasn't all that clear.

My understanding is that Thomas did not use his dialup setting on their machine but simple used their machine and settings to log into his webmail. Maybe Thomas would like to clarify that bit, it is fairly crucial as to, where to from here.

godfather
11-02-2005, 03:13 PM
I don't use Xtra so I have no idea how items appear on their bills but wouldn't it say somewhere that there are two accounts being used concurrently?? Or do they just lump it all together?

(And no, Godfather, you may not just give one 'yes' as an answer to those questions ;))

The show it simply as "dial-up internet access", the number of sessions and the total time.

My concern is, that unless Cicero actually used his settings in the dial-up, then the charges should not have occurred.

And if he did they could be going on today, until the settings are changed back to the original ones for that computer owner. That could explain the high hours?

ninja
11-02-2005, 03:40 PM
And if he did they could be going on today, until the settings are changed back to the original ones for that computer owner. That could explain the high hours?Hence me providing the check usage link, which seems to have been ignored.

godfather
11-02-2005, 04:55 PM
As Cicero has not responded to the endeavours in the replies, might we assume he has had his assets stripped for non payment of the Xtra account?

Winston001
11-02-2005, 05:25 PM
Send him an email? :D

Cicero
11-02-2005, 06:03 PM
As Cicero has not responded to the endeavours in the replies, might we assume he has had his assets stripped for non payment of the Xtra account?
My apologies for my tardiness in responding.
I spent ages last night trying work out what all the info that I was able to get,thanks to Ninja,was all about.Let me start again,no booing in the background ;) all the above is one thing,that is should I pay for what etc.
In Nov I moved into new house,phone installed,good now able to get onto net and annoy PF1ers..So how to get back on line?Rang telecom and was told I needed a cd with instructions etc,off to Warehouse,was told by chap there that slingshot was the way to go,tried that and found backup lacking,so off to N.Leaming to get xtra cd,followed instruction,or so I thought,knowing I wanted to be on the Xtra value pack.
When I got my bill in Dec there was a charge for additional sevices of $96.80,rang up and told them must be a mistake I should be on$27.95 jobbie,oh sorry will pass credit and all will be well.
Get bill for Jan,now additional services are $347.16,ring up again and am told a credit will be passed and all will be well.
Get bill for Feb and at last I have a bill for $27.95 for additional services,but the credit that were promised was not forthcoming.
Thing is,previously I had dealt with telecom,but this time when I spoke to them they put me onto the xtra people,who seem to have no interest in my situation other than to want there dosh.
I should say at this stage I dont know what the outcome will be as the xtra people were considering the matter.

godfather
11-02-2005, 07:20 PM
Well, having read that I am not sure that I am any the wiser for it?

Are you saying:


You still had your old Xtra account active ($2.81 per month) while you were not using it? Sounds normal enough.


You then created a new account using the Xtra CD, even though all you needed to do was to enter the login name and password for the old account into the PC dialler (no new setup CD was needed)?


Having created a new account, were you then charged on the old one, as you were using the "casual access" $2.50 per hour that would have applied? The $27.95 perhaps was the new one, which you were not in reality using?

Unsure why you were trying to deal with Telecom though.
Telecom do not have anything to do with it as Xtra is a separately run company (even though it is owned by Telecom) and has been for years.

If Xtra told you to run the install CD, and in doing so it created a new account,and the above debacle they should accept the mistake and credit the account.

If the mistake was yours however, perhaps grovelling may help. Or paying is always good too.

If you need a good lawyer, see 001.
If you need to send a dead horses head to someone, let me know.

But if you could explain exactly what happened, it could be useful for others.

Antmannz
11-02-2005, 07:20 PM
Sounds to me like you need to get Xtra/Telecom to investigate what plan you were being charged for as that $347 sounds suspiciously like their $2.50 per hour for a month's worth of internet access. Yes, it's very easy to use 100+ hours per month without realising.

Once you can verify this, you may then have a better chance at getting the charge refunded. However, I would be exceptionally polite to the ppl you talk to as going off grumpy at help-desk ppl tends to get one nowhere.

I'm wondering if the CD you got from Noel Leeming was a very old Xtra CD, or perhaps you may have selected the $2.50 per hr option believing that to be the "email only" type of account.

Cicero
11-02-2005, 09:03 PM
Well, having read that I am not sure that I am any the wiser for it?

Are you saying:


You still had your old Xtra account active ($2.81 per month) while you were not using it? Sounds normal enough.


You then created a new account using the Xtra CD, even though all you needed to do was to enter the login name and password for the old account into the PC dialler (no new setup CD was needed)?


Having created a new account, were you then charged on the old one, as you were using the "casual access" $2.50 per hour that would have applied? The $27.95 perhaps was the new one, which you were not in reality using?

Unsure why you were trying to deal with Telecom though.
Telecom do not have anything to do with it as Xtra is a separately run company (even though it is owned by Telecom) and has been for years.

If Xtra told you to run the install CD, and in doing so it created a new account,and the above debacle they should accept the mistake and credit the account.

If the mistake was yours however, perhaps grovelling may help. Or paying is always good too.

If you need a good lawyer, see 001.
If you need to send a dead horses head to someone, let me know.

But if you could explain exactly what happened, it could be useful for others.
Must say I like the big dots,very trendy.
#1 I kept the account open so that I could access email.Normal indeed.
#2That is true,didn't know that is how one went about it,be interesting to know how many do!.
It would seem that I was using the $2.50 system unbeknown to me,I understood that I had asked for the value pack(27.95)that being the system I had been on at the vineyard.
#4 I was dealing with telecom because it was them that sent the bill and it is them I have dealt with in the past about charge queries.When I spoke to telecom as mentioned, prior to yesterday there had been no suggestion of me talking to xtra.
One hopes that they do accept responsibility,because as I have said,They had agreed to credit in the past.
Ta.

Cicero
11-02-2005, 09:07 PM
Sounds to me like you need to get Xtra/Telecom to investigate what plan you were being charged for as that $347 sounds suspiciously like their $2.50 per hour for a month's worth of internet access. Yes, it's very easy to use 100+ hours per month without realising.

Once you can verify this, you may then have a better chance at getting the charge refunded. However, I would be exceptionally polite to the ppl you talk to as going off grumpy at help-desk ppl tends to get one nowhere.

I'm wondering if the CD you got from Noel Leeming was a very old Xtra CD, or perhaps you may have selected the $2.50 per hr option believing that to be the "email only" type of account.
Thanks Am. I have my fingers crossed,there has been a suggestion G_F may pay if it comes to that. :lol:

Cicero
11-02-2005, 09:09 PM
Send him an email? :D
This lad can be very droll ;)

JJJJJ
12-02-2005, 06:59 AM
I don't know if xtra employs extremley incompetent staff in their accounts section or whether it is their policy to try and overcharge whenever the chance arises.
There have ben numerous postings about but still it goes on.
My one and only experience with Xtra was several years ago. I bought a new computer that came with a sign up disk to join xtra. It offered free installment and unlimited internet useage. I ran the disk and filled in the details and I was in business.
Like all net newbies I downloaded everything that moved and every bit of free software on the web.
After a month my Telecom bill arrives. $xxxx for excess useage.!
After numerous calls to Xtra (and a 30 minute wait for each one to be answered) the reply was. "When you use one of those disks to sign up you automaticly go on the 50 hour plan. If you want to change it you have to e-mail us and we will change it." Even though I had selected "unlimited" .
It seems somewhere in their agreement was something that said that if I wanted to change my plan I had to notify them by e-mail. Therefore my plan hadn't been changed. And I had to pay the ammount billed.
When I said they could get stuffed and told them where to stick their internet and I would sign up with someone else. I was told I couldn't because my phone would be disconnected if I didn't pay up.
So I payed up.
I then phoned the company that supplied my computer and told them the story.
Two hours later I received a phone call from Xtra and was advised that they had made a mistake and the charges were being waived.
But they didn't refund my money. They credited it to my Telecom account.
So from that day to this I have had nothing to do with Telecom other than to pay my monthly "line rental" bill.
I soon found out there were other ISP's out there who charged less than Xtra and who answered their phone immediately and who could handle my toll calls. And who employed knowlegable staff on their help desk.
I will never use Xtra again regardless of what they offer.
Jack :mad: :mad:

JJJJJ
12-02-2005, 07:01 AM
Why isn't there a spell checker attached to this forum?
:help: :help: :help:
Jack

Cicero
12-02-2005, 09:08 AM
Well written Jack.
I will be joining you and the ranks of others if not resolved in my favour.
You can use this if you use m/s kit.
http://www.iespell.com/

Wonder if I can use your credit to pay bill. :D