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FoxyMX
01-02-2005, 05:55 PM
It's a shame that Bruce thought fit to lock the "What's up with Big Brother?" (http://pressf1.pcworld.co.nz/showthread.php?t=53949) thread as, personally, I thought Ninja raised a very good point regarding "banned words" that I have been musing over recently myself.

As it appears that I have got Bruce's back up over my comment regarding Chilling Silence having an avatar, I would like to clarify some things. Firstly, I am glad that avatars will not be implemented on the forum as I find them annoying, hence my comment regarding switching them off. Secondly, I couldn't care less whether the moderators have avatars for the reason given, though it would have been nice to have seen an annoucement rather than them just appear out of the blue. It would also have looked more professional if the avatars were standardised official "Press F1 moderator badges" though, because as it is now it is going to confuse a lot of new and/or infrequent visitors to the forum who are going to be asking how come those select few can have them but not the rest of the members.

As for the moderators giving their time freely to keeping the forum running smoothly, Jen is doing a fantastic job and deserves all the support she can get. :thumbs:

Regarding the filtration of inappropriate words I have to agree with Ninja that it is ridiculous how some offensive words, eg s h * t, c**t and W T F are banned but not crap, twat or ***. A lot of the words Ninja listed could and should be added to the filter list as even though we are all supposed to be "mature" there will always be plenty who don't find anything wrong with using such language on a public family forum.

My comments are offered as constructive criticism, not as a whinge or a test of the admin's patience. Feel free to delete the post if you don't like it. :D

hamstar
01-02-2005, 06:13 PM
I think/hope all the avatars are kept in a folder somewhat like, pressf1.co.nz/avatars/ so that people can adblock it in firefox.

Also I think it's stoopid for abreviations to be censored...

some people have just got to harden up....

TonyF
01-02-2005, 06:38 PM
Also I think it's stoopid for abreviations to be censored...

some people have just got to harden up....

Why ? You may be happy in your circle with rough language, which is OK. but in a common forum keep it straightforward. Rough language does not add anything to the value of the traffic.

Metla
01-02-2005, 06:45 PM
1912 was a golden year wasn't it.

tralalalalalala.

I am yet to see any admins avatar, :p

Cicero
01-02-2005, 06:50 PM
1912 was a golden year wasn't it.

tralalalalalala.

I am yet to see any admins avatar, :p
Not for the Russians I believe,oops that was 1812,Terry can tell us about the overture :D

Mary
01-02-2005, 07:03 PM
Sorry that there wasn't an "official" announcement, but as we are currently down to one webteam member (i.e. me) out of two it was a busy day, and I got called to do something else urgently just as I turned this feature on for mods.
You'll notice that I have kept the badges standard - cept Bruce's cos the chimp hijacked his...
As for the "bad word" filter, I tend to agree with Bruce - this is first and foremost a tech help forum, and we are all adults. We never implemented a filter list as we didn't feel the need, so if words are filtered out its likely its been used wrongly and we've added it.
We may not be able to please everybody all the time, but we try our best.

Terry Porritt
01-02-2005, 07:13 PM
Not for the Russians I believe,oops that was 1812,Terry can tell us about the overture :D

Piotr Ilyitch Tchaikovsky
"1812" Overture in E Flat Major Op. 49 (1880)

A bit before my time. To celebrate the ahem victory of the Russians over the French at Borodino, well described in "War and Peace", except that 44,000 Russians were killed and 33,000 French. But it meant eventual defeat for the French and the retreat from Moscow, a lesson that Hitler forgot.

Now to hear the cannons tune in here:
http://telmedia.telarc.com:8080/ramgen/telarc/80541/80541-1-m.rm

It runs for 15 minutes.

Edward
01-02-2005, 07:37 PM
I don't know about anyone else, but I'd much rather express myself with an avatar than 1 stupid line of text (That wonderful little custom rank). Turn the custom ranks of and poof! No more users pretending to be mods

Metla
01-02-2005, 07:52 PM
Or.....just take it with a chuckle, as that is all it deserves.

Getting upset over a user having banned as a title is just redicules, and no one was decieved by the one who named himself moderator (and has since removed it)

The would has enough mountains, lets leave the molehills as they are.

Cicero
01-02-2005, 07:58 PM
Piotr Ilyitch Tchaikovsky
"1812" Overture in E Flat Major Op. 49 (1880)

A bit before my time. To celebrate the ahem victory of the Russians over the French at Borodino, well described in "War and Peace", except that 44,000 Russians were killed and 33,000 French. But it meant eventual defeat for the French and the retreat from Moscow, a lesson that Hitler forgot.

Now to hear the cannons tune in here:
http://telmedia.telarc.com:8080/ramgen/telarc/80541/80541-1-m.rm

It runs for 15 minutes.
Thanks Terry,listening at mo.
Why don't they listen and for forget about bloomin Avatars?
The meaning of Avatars has been stretched,I hope 001 can comment on this.

Poppa John
01-02-2005, 08:02 PM
Or.....just take it with a chuckle, as that is all it deserves.

Getting upset over a user having banned as a title is just redicules, and no one was decieved by the one who named himself moderator (and has since removed it)

The would has enough mountains, lets leave the molehills as they are.


Hey Metla, whats with you???. Gone from Feisty Techie to Filosofolist ??? PJ :D :eek:

Poppa John
01-02-2005, 08:09 PM
Metla... PS.... Have already forgotten what you told me earlier today. I think I am getting that memory problem thingy. Avotar or Alcatraz or something!!!!! PJ :groan:

KiwiLinc
01-02-2005, 08:11 PM
As far as the Avatars go, I don't really care one way or the other. I like them but don't need one to use or get what I need from this forum.
As for the whole language thing, the rules of etiquette for a forum such as this are pretty obvious.
For those who feel the need to swear...it shows a lack of imagination or at very least a poor grip on the English language.

ninja
01-02-2005, 08:15 PM
Interesting to see the huge double standard as well that allowed Bruce to direct a personal slight at me, where other posters get banned for saying the slightest wrong about anyone else on the forum.

Edit: Direct link to the post:
http://pressf1.pcworld.co.nz/showpost.php?p=318278&postcount=20

And a direct link to report the post for those that feel the urge:
http://pressf1.pcworld.co.nz/report.php?p=318278

Poppa John
01-02-2005, 08:35 PM
As far as the Avatars go, I don't really care one way or the other. I like them but don't need one to use or get what I need from this forum.
As for the whole language thing, the rules of etiquette for a forum such as this are pretty obvious.
For those who feel the need to swear...it shows a lack of imagination or at very least a poor grip on the English language.


Fortunately, being one of the over 60s, I had an education that valued good English Language Skills. I have been told by a teacher "that a lot of todays kids have a vocabulary of only 400 words". If you take out the swear words, & 'words' like R & U as in texting language there can't be many left. Having said that, I have often spoken to young'uns who speak well, clearly &positively. PJ :2cents: :2cents:

E|im
01-02-2005, 08:46 PM
Interesting to see the huge double standard as well that allowed Bruce to direct a personal slight at me, where other posters get banned for saying the slightest wrong about anyone else on the forum.
:lol: :lol: Yeah huge double standards around here.

I'm pleased to announce the great 3 letters are back and working "WТF". ;)

~sy~
01-02-2005, 08:47 PM
Having said that, I have often spoken to young'uns who speak well, clearly &positively. PJ :2cents: :2cents:It always annoys me when my customers think I'm in my late 20's. I ask them why? They say... oh! you're just unusual. Most kids these days can't speak without the F-word and would struggle to sell me anything let alone the $500+ worth of stuff I've got here. Why can't people just speak 'normally'. Off course, allowance must be made for slight changes over time but swearwords in every spoken sentence ain't cool.

I also don't see anything wrong with the locked thread. At times, I do feel that the Nazi's have taken power. Either the moderators are too busy with their own life and can't be bothered thinking -or they need to learn some people-skills.

Note: I don't care if the above gets deleted.. etc. It's my view and to be honest, what the forum is like now is no better than what it used to be.

KiwiLinc
01-02-2005, 08:48 PM
Hi PJ, I'm only a sprightly 34 yrs. I'll openly admit my language has not always been the best. One thing I've learned in life is that one of the greatest weapons/skills is a firm grasp of language. The ability to cut or soothe with a few words, that and manners. Both cost nothing and can get you a long way.
This forum should not be a place for a few imbeciles to show their ignorance.

Safari
01-02-2005, 08:58 PM
Fortunately, being one of the over 60s, I had an education that valued good English Language Skills. I have been told by a teacher "that a lot of todays kids have a vocabulary of only 400 words". If you take out the swear words, & 'words' like R & U as in texting language there can't be many left. Having said that, I have often spoken to young'uns who speak well, clearly &positively. PJ :2cents: :2cents:

Yes, it is sad really about the standard of language skills of the young of today. Part of it is due to not enough reading of good books. Some households don't have a book in sight and as a result reading is not encouraged.
Those parents that read to the very young and and then encourage reading by giving numerous books over the years and set an example by having a well stocked bookcase in plain view will find that language skills are far better than those that never read a book.

KiwiLinc
01-02-2005, 09:00 PM
Interesting to see the huge double standard as well that allowed Bruce to direct a personal slight at me, where other posters get banned for saying the slightest wrong about anyone else on the forum.


I agree! People in the position of authority need to be performing cleaner & better than those they intend to point thier finger at. :(

Elephant
01-02-2005, 09:13 PM
I think/hope all the avatars are kept in a folder somewhat like, pressf1.co.nz/avatars/ so that people can adblock it in firefox.

Also I think it's stoopid for abreviations to be censored...

some people have just got to harden up....

If you had not yet noticed you can show or not show avatars using the UserCP and options. I can not see avatars as I have this stopped using the Forum options. I can even do this using my humble IE.

Regarding your "harden up" comment I feel that there is no need on a forum of this nature to use euphemisms, innuendo and generally slagging people off. I'm old enough to take it and I'm well balanced as I have a chip on BOTH shoulders!! :-)

I am, however, a little protective of Grandchildren who may be sitting alongside me while I check this forum.....

Think about it. An 8 yr old says, "What does a word that is four letters long that has a "K", "U", "C" and an "F" in it mean?"

I note that you have elected in UserCP to change the default "Junior Member" etc to something that more represents your view of your world. This is fair enough but I can't block that using IE and I have to see it.

ninja
01-02-2005, 09:35 PM
Regarding your "harden up" comment I feel that there is no need on a forum of this nature to use euphemisms

Think about it. An 8 yr old says, "What does a word that is four letters long that has a "K", "U", "C" and an "F" in it mean?"
So I take it you never curse, make utterances, use slang or anything else in the real world then. Not when driving, not when you drop a bottle of milk, not when you hit your hand with a hammer (cliche I know).

An element of harden up is probably not that far from wrong. I mean where do you draw the line. So w t f isn't allowable, if someone finds someone saying "for christs sake" should the word christ be banned? Then someone says "for crying out loud" which is not far from the same phrase, should that be banned because of it's similarities.

You take risks when you have kids on the internet. A search for teletubbies gives a page in the first results that lets you choose between being straight or gay - explain that one to them.

No different to walking them down a street in the city "whats in the shop that says S E X T O Y S with the curtains across the door Granddad??"

It seems since the move to vBulletin that those moderating have just started jumping all over the slightest thing outside their comfort zone. It probably doesn't help that people undoubtedly hammer the "Report post" button every time they see something they marginally don't like.

I got a warning the other day from a moderator who will remain *** because someone had reported a post in which I said:

<obvious>
Run your virus scanner (or other civil words to that effect)
</obvious>

Apparently there was no need to point out it was obvious even though the poster said he thought he had a virus.

Along with a second warning because I repeated the same fix to a poster who obviously ignored it the first time. Perfectly legitimate actions.

That as a result of someone using the "report post" feature.

I wouldn't be surprised to turn up tomorrow, find this thread deleted and half the forum that have posted in it banned. A forum holocaust if you like.

The more this place clamps down and removes any freedoms at all, the less likely people like myself, and probably others with significant technical knowledge and skill will be less inclined to provide support - eventually killing the forum.

In spite of the old forum saying "Leave a message and one of our staff or another poster will answer you" I don't see any IDG staff providing much (if any) technical assistance to users here - all IDG provide is a server and some software - the people power the board.

I shall now humbly await death by administration.

Elephant
01-02-2005, 09:36 PM
As for the "bad word" filter, I tend to agree with Bruce - this is first and foremost a tech help forum, and we are all adults.

I am sorry to disagree with you Mary. All people who look at this Forum are not Adults. Yes, this is, and should be, a tech help forum. I agree 100% with that.

For that reason I think I would prefer it was a tech help forum and just only that!

I am pleased that PressF1 has been divided into two so that those of us who don't want to read all the off topic stuff don't need to.

Metla
01-02-2005, 09:45 PM
Welcome to the Mountain.


LMFAO.

E|im
01-02-2005, 09:49 PM
<snip>
The more this place clamps down and removes any freedoms at all, the less likely people like myself, and probably others with significant technical knowledge and skill will be less inclined to provide support - eventually killing the forum.

In spite of the old forum saying "Leave a message and one of our staff or another poster will answer you" I don't see any IDG staff providing much (if any) technical assistance to users here - all IDG provide is a server and some software - the people power the board.
ROFL :lol: I completely agree. Yeah where are any of the IDG staff helping out? I've already given up on this forum a long time ago as this place restricts everything you do. Then you've got the elitist PF1 clique still running around...

beetle
01-02-2005, 09:50 PM
But arnt you reading it now? Elephant?

no there are no helpful tech's, no one from idg helps at all, they had to also get pf1 regulars to be moderators......???
They have work to do? so why have this site if they are not here to run it? help on it and keep it under control?
avatars, signitures etc...they dont matter, its the bad flak and lack of respect some people are getting and they are often the helpful innocent ones.
Im sick at every week or so theres a riot about what is or is not happening here....

people who cant say anything nice should shut up and the report post crap is just as bad. stop moaning and get on with life, its to short youre all gonna die some day, so enjoy the bloody time ya have now....

im also sick of the constant sniping about certain posters because the other said person is anty them or has a big chip, gridge on their shoulder, i find the ones they would like to ban are more helpful and dont make indirect snipes at others.

double standards are also terrible here too, seems people like me, can get away with a lot, but if say metla or ninja said same as me....jump on them.

its stupid,


live and let live for goodness sake.


im beginning to hate this place, and im not here near as much as i was, spend more time on other sites than here now, and im spose to be a regular.....huh


sux :dogeye:

and yeah i agree with what ninja says, locked and banned lol it always happens when a discussion like this happens, and nobody is insulting anybody either.


And look what ya started MUM!..............LOL

couldnt care less if i was banned for life at this rate,


yeah and nite all.



beetle

Elephant
01-02-2005, 10:08 PM
Yes, it is sad really about the standard of language skills of the young of today. Part of it is due to not enough reading of good books. Some households don't have a book in sight and as a result reading is not encouraged.
Those parents that read to the very young and and then encourage reading by giving numerous books over the years and set an example by having a well stocked bookcase in plain view will find that language skills are far better than those that never read a book.

I might add though that you can point children to the local Library. This is generally free.

I do wonder what you think is a "good book".

Once upon a time I read books by P.G.Wodehouse and I do very much worry about the language issue that may be found in books written by that author.

For example, "We went to Bristol and a gay old time."
How does a child comprehend that?

Was Bertie Wooster "Gay"?
Was there someone around, being a Lady with big front bits?

The English language changes very frequently as I see it.
Go to Australia and you will get words like Ambo (Ambulance Driver). Bendy Bus (Articulated Bus).

In New Zealand I hear all about "onedayers" being one day cricket matches. This one annoys me and every time I hear it I cringe.

English is a living language and if something new like a "Computer" happens to be invented then we have to come up with a noun for the invention.

Safari
01-02-2005, 10:16 PM
It doesn't have to be a good book, as long as they read something.
Once the habit is formed it will stay for life.

Elephant
01-02-2005, 10:25 PM
But arnt you reading it now? Elephant?

no there are no helpful tech's, no one from idg helps at all, they had to also get pf1 regulars to be moderators......???
They have work to do? so why have this site if they are not here to run it? help on it and keep it under control?
avatars, signitures etc...they dont matter, its the bad flak and lack of respect some people are getting and they are often the helpful innocent ones.
Im sick at every week or so theres a riot about what is or is not happening here....

people who cant say anything nice should shut up and the report post crap is just as bad. stop moaning and get on with life, its to short youre all gonna die some day, so enjoy the bloody time ya have now....

im also sick of the constant sniping about certain posters because the other said person is anty them or has a big chip, gridge on their shoulder, i find the ones they would like to ban are more helpful and dont make indirect snipes at others.

double standards are also terrible here too, seems people like me, can get away with a lot, but if say metla or ninja said same as me....jump on them.

its stupid,


live and let live for goodness sake.


im beginning to hate this place, and im not here near as much as i was, spend more time on other sites than here now, and im spose to be a regular.....huh


sux http://pressf1.pcworld.co.nz/images/smilies/puppy_dog_eyes.gif

and yeah i agree with what ninja says, locked and banned lol it always happens when a discussion like this happens, and nobody is insulting anybody either.


And look what ya started MUM!..............LOL

couldnt care less if i was banned for life at this rate,


yeah and nite all.



beetle

Yes Beetle I am reading the forum. You might notice that I have not replied very often on this Forum lately as usually either I don't know the answer off the top of my head or possibly someone else has answered.

You might also notice that I have pulled my head in and just don't do much at all..

The few posts I have made lately have been to ask questions for further info so I can solve a problem.

ninja
01-02-2005, 10:32 PM
You might notice that I have not replied very often on this Forum lately Over 1/2 your posts are on this forum.

george12
01-02-2005, 10:44 PM
Mary helps us quite often. I like this forum :(, don't let it descend into a bad state.

I think the new forum and tougher moderation have had a good effect on the forum too. Nobody should have to "toughen up" over swear words. I myself don't have a problem with them but respect that MANY others do.

It will be a sad day if beetle goes :( don't leave.

E|im
01-02-2005, 10:53 PM
Beetle leaving? That's like saying Stu left.

Lohsing
01-02-2005, 11:26 PM
ROFL :lol: I completely agree. Yeah where are any of the IDG staff helping out? I've already given up on this forum a long time ago as this place restricts everything you do. Then you've got the elitist PF1 clique still running around...
Geez guys... there's so much whinging that people seem to take for granted that this isn't a free for all forum...

You think you've got it tough here? Check out OCNZ where you get banned for not reading the rules.

It's not that hard... it's someone else's board put here for your use with a few rules to follow.

Lo.

E|im
01-02-2005, 11:33 PM
You think you've got it tough here? Check out OCNZ where you get banned for not reading the rules.
The banning at PF1 is becoming just as bad as OCNZ.

Elephant
02-02-2005, 12:25 AM
So I take it you never curse, make utterances, use slang or anything else in the real world then. Not when driving, not when you drop a bottle of milk, not when you hit your hand with a hammer (cliche I know).

An element of harden up is probably not that far from wrong. I mean where do you draw the line. So w t f isn't allowable, if someone finds someone saying "for christs sake" should the word christ be banned? Then someone says "for crying out loud" which is not far from the same phrase, should that be banned because of it's similarities.

You take risks when you have kids on the internet. A search for teletubbies gives a page in the first results that lets you choose between being straight or gay - explain that one to them.

No different to walking them down a street in the city "whats in the shop that says S E X T O Y S with the curtains across the door Granddad??"

It seems since the move to vBulletin that those moderating have just started jumping all over the slightest thing outside their comfort zone. It probably doesn't help that people undoubtedly hammer the "Report post" button every time they see something they marginally don't like.

I got a warning the other day from a moderator who will remain *** because someone had reported a post in which I said:

<obvious>
Run your virus scanner (or other civil words to that effect)
</obvious>

Apparently there was no need to point out it was obvious even though the poster said he thought he had a virus.

Along with a second warning because I repeated the same fix to a poster who obviously ignored it the first time. Perfectly legitimate actions.

That as a result of someone using the "report post" feature.

I wouldn't be surprised to turn up tomorrow, find this thread deleted and half the forum that have posted in it banned. A forum holocaust if you like.

The more this place clamps down and removes any freedoms at all, the less likely people like myself, and probably others with significant technical knowledge and skill will be less inclined to provide support - eventually killing the forum.

In spite of the old forum saying "Leave a message and one of our staff or another poster will answer you" I don't see any IDG staff providing much (if any) technical assistance to users here - all IDG provide is a server and some software - the people power the board.

I shall now humbly await death by administration.

I have cursed in the past. I own up to that. However I do "moderate" my language when in the presence of Ladies and young children.

AIRI (As I Remember It) When the "W", "T" & "F" first appeared on this forum Bruce Buckman had a small problem with the name but it was allowed. (Whiskey Tango Foxtrot) And maybe I can be banned for using AIRI as well. I somehow doubt this.

This can be construed as "What The F" but *** was allowed to post until at some stage he/she was banned.

This was probably due to an offensive post rather than the name.

In the previous forum I was known as Elephant and I managed to sign in under the same user name after a few little problems changing the Forum to to the one we have now.

I can tell you I have never used the report post feature.

I read and sometimes disagree but have never reported a post.

Elephant
02-02-2005, 12:45 AM
It doesn't have to be a good book, as long as they read something.
Once the habit is formed it will stay for life.

I agree in a way. You did mention "Good book"

I was curious about what you felt was a good book.

My Father and Mother pointed me to READ! Teacher said the same.

Currently I pick up and read 3-5 books per week.

I am still learning.

I do not know everything yet.

FoxyMX
02-02-2005, 09:22 AM
Mary: Thank you for taking the time to post your explanations. It is appreciated. :)

I disagree with you that "we are all adults". In my view a person does not become an adult until they are eligble to vote or buy alcohol. Until then they are children/youths.

It is Bruce's and your choice whether the forum has a language filter or not but personally, if I were a Mod, I would be thankful that there were less bad posts reported due to the filtering of inappropriate language.

<Enables viewing of avatars>

Ah yes, that's much better. :thumbs:

</Disables viewing of avatars>

FoxyMX
02-02-2005, 09:28 AM
Ninja: Whatever your personal grievances are with the Admins and/or Mods the forum has its rules and we are obliged to honour them if we want to use it. Although I may privately agree with some of the things that you post I don't agree with your right to say them on this forum purely because I firmly believe that "If you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all". It just makes for a much more pleasant world when people are not rude to each other. Your vast amount of knowledge is valuable and your generosity in sharing it is much appreciated and I for one would be sorry to see you leave the forum. So just behave yourself, will ya! :p



In spite of the old forum saying "Leave a message and one of our staff or another poster will answer you" I don't see any IDG staff providing much (if any) technical assistance to users here - all IDG provide is a server and some software - the people power the board.
Bruce and Mary pop in and answer a few questions when they can but it has always been a "people powered" forum. Who cares, though? As long as it is there. ;)



I've already given up on this forum a long time ago as this place restricts everything you do. Then you've got the elitist PF1 clique still running around...
That is a rather inaccurate generalisation, don't you think? The rules and restrictions are rather moderate compared to some forums and I can't see how they can be too hard to follow. As for the banning becoming as bad as on OCNZ, I don't think so, not by a long shot.

Oh, and before anyone runs away with the idea, I have never used the "Report a bad post" feature nor have I ever PMed a Mod to complain about anyone's behaviour.


George and Lohsing: I agree with all that you have said.

Mary
02-02-2005, 09:36 AM
no there are no helpful tech's, no one from idg helps at all, they had to also get pf1 regulars to be moderators......???
They have work to do? so why have this site if they are not here to run it? help on it and keep it under control?
avatars, signitures etc...they dont matter, its the bad flak and lack of respect some people are getting and they are often the helpful innocent ones.
Im sick at every week or so theres a riot about what is or is not happening here....


I "resemble" this comment.
I may not be here 24x7, but I am here on and off throughout the day, and even in my own time outside of work - logged in as both "admin" and "Mary" - Jen will vouch for this as I was logged in on and off throughout the xmas holidays. I am always available on email or PM, and have helped numerous members with problems.

We used to be a team of about 12, we are now down to 3 or 4, but only Jim and I who look after you guys.
We have this website as well as another 8 or so websites to run, as well as being at the beg and call of marketing/editorial at IDG... plus somewhere in amongst that we manage to do our own web projects.
Bruce also dedicates a lot of time to you guys, even though he has monthly editorial duties.
Jen and Chill have, I think, been doing a great job.

Anyway enough grumbles!! :o

Chris Randal
02-02-2005, 09:47 AM
My feeling is that we are very lucky to have IDG host this forum - but I wouldn't blame them AT ALL if they pulled the plug!

beetle
02-02-2005, 09:59 AM
Haha seems no matter what i say people miscontrue it (sp) and no im not leaving, didnt say i was leaving did i?

hmmmm im just tired of the crap, again and yeah so i posted.
what do you mean one of those beetle leaving again like stu? not sure i agree with that, i may have suggested time out, but leaving is impossible, in the blood or something.

Doesnt help that im constantly tired, and the end of the tether like ( and crap loads of work to do everywhere) and something i dont agree with or do agree with needs a riot post.....:p

Im here, and will most probably either have no access to a computer (killed it or sick) ever or die to not be here. then ill probably haunt the place....... :lol: :lol:



yeah i know Mary you are here, and BB too, but it seems not many help posts are seen by me, or someothers so we dont know you are here or not.

And yeah i miss robo.......

Does life get so stressful or resentful that we unknowingly gripe and grumble about the little things often???? who squeezes the toothpaste wrong? who has an Avatar? why have signitures? *** words are not to be said......
Im just as guilty of getting on the bandwagon, so i have no justification to grumble.

And yeah i think we need to look at things from their point of veiw before ours.


over and out, but not gone...............................

Come on do you really think id leave? or ya just wish id leave???? LOL

beetle ;)

TonyF
02-02-2005, 10:10 AM
Hooray for Beetle ! Breath of fresh air and all that...

Worriesome that she is tired all the time - who can suggest magic treatment which will fix that ?
Cheers Tony

Poppa John
02-02-2005, 10:56 AM
Hooray for Beetle ! Breath of fresh air and all that...

Worriesome that she is tired all the time - who can suggest magic treatment which will fix that ?
Cheers Tony


When you find the magic treatment, please let me know as well? PJ :groan:

Metla
02-02-2005, 10:58 AM
How about a ...... magnetic belt?

anyhow.

Musical Interlude

The Mountain song

comin' down the mountain
one of many children
everybody has
their own opinion
everybody has
their own opinion
holding it back
hurts so bad
jumping out of my flesh
and i said -
cash in!
cash in now honey
cash in now
cash in now
cash in now honey
cash in miss smith
cash in now!
i was comin down the mountain
met a child she had pin eyes
we had the same opinion
had the same opinion
she was holding it back
it hurts do bad
jumping out of her flesh
and i said -
cash in
cash in now honey
cash in now
cash in now
cash in now honey
cash in miss smith
cash in now

Biggles
02-02-2005, 11:36 AM
1] No one at IDG is paid to provide tech help on this forum. If it was this forum would not be here, period. This is designed as a user-helps-user forum. Anyone who wants to try and run a forum like this in NZ and PAY people to answers questions is free to try. I might turn up at the fire sale auction of gear left over when they go bust.

2] As has become blindingly obvious, we should probably freeze putting any new features in this forum. Why? Because when we do all some of you do is ***** about them. You ***** about look and feel. You ***** if you don't have post editing and when you get it you ***** about not having a spell checker anymore, even though when you did you bitched about it being no good. You ***** about not being able to find the "post a reply" button, you ***** about the colours. Those who haven't blocked them ***** about the ads.

You know, I've belonged to some forums for years and never once felt the need to ***** about any of that. I guess I'm just extremely odd.

But mostly you ***** about each other. You ***** if someone is rude. You ***** if you just think someone is rude. You ***** if you think someone is about to be rude. And of course, you have a point - some of you have developed a whole culture of how to be rude, sharp, insulting and just plain nasty to each other in very subtle ways. So much of this goes on that we eventually had to do two things - add more mods (who give their time freely and unpaid) and add rules to try and put in place a framework for encourgaing and if neccessary enforcing better behaviour. Why? Because its our forum and we want it to be ancie place for people to visit. Funny, me, you know I never thought it would be a problem. Colour me stupid, I guess.

So now you really have something to ***** about. You've got us and our rules. At last something bitchers from both ends of the spectrum can ***** about with equal enthusiasm. Rules are stupid. Rules are too loose or too tight. We don't need rules or we need more.

And as for the mods -- well they are "Nazis". They impinge on your "free speech" (whatever that is on a forum with a set of rules you agree to abide by before signing up). They are not even handed. They slap you on the wrist for saying this, while ignoring the other guy who said that.

You guys don't want mods. You want articial intelligence robot bots who have impossibly high standards of never getting anything wrong, seeing everything, everywhere, never getting mad and never ever annoying anybody. Simple, really.

For the record, Robo quit - because he was sick of all this.

Metla
02-02-2005, 12:05 PM
Hail Bruce.

Welcome to the Mountain.

beetle
02-02-2005, 12:12 PM
:(

Yep.

I think the thing we are forgetting is its free, and we shouldnt look a gift horse in the mouth and say....brush ya teeth ya breath stinks.... when it wouldnt be here otherwise.

I think we are all guilty of saying things when we shouldnt, sorry BB and Mary.


Apologies all, sorry for being me, and yeah sorry for not turning a blind eye.
and avoiding this thread at all costs.......
Have anice day.

beetle

FoxyMX
02-02-2005, 12:40 PM
<muses>

All this wouldn't have started if:

1. I had come online a couple of hours after I did and therefore not have seen Chilling Silence's "Linux Inside" avatar... or

2. Mary had standardised the Mods' avatars right from the word go... or

3. I had a life. :eek:

</muses>

Sorry Bruce and Mary, I didn't mean to cause any trouble :(

Oh well, it's good that we have all said our piece and had the air cleared, now maybe we can all get back to doing what we are here to do: fix computer problems.

Damn, I need to go make some dust...

Winston001
02-02-2005, 01:46 PM
What an odd thread!

Anyway -

avatar (ăv'ə-tr')n.

1. The incarnation of a Hindu deity, especially Vishnu, in human or animal form.
2. An embodiment, as of a quality or concept; an archetype: the very avatar of cunning.
3. A temporary manifestation or aspect of a continuing entity: occultism in its present avatar.

Sanskrit avatāraḥ, descent (of a deity from heaven), avatar : ava, down + tarati, he crosses.

But also -

avatar

Computer-generated character that represents a human in on-screen interaction. In the mid-1990s, avatars were primarily used in computer games, but because they take up much less memory or bandwidth than full video, companies such as British Telecom were researching the possibility of building multiparty videoconferencing systems using this technology.

As Elephant says, language continually evolves (icon is another example - originally a painting on wood, often religious). Words change and gain new meanings.

Personally I have no problem with explaining Bertie Wooster's use of the word "gay" to my children. The knowledge will enrich and broaden their understanding of our language. Thus "Gaytime" iceceam cones are not such a mystery. Not so long ago (ie. until about 1970) "making love" was the process of wooing and adoring a member of the opposite sex.

Jester
02-02-2005, 02:01 PM
wftw

'*****'

16 times in one form or other in Bruce's make my day post.

This rain's a ***** innit? Never mind the fine weather over past weeks I'm on holiday and want a bitching time down the beach. Live's a beach :cool:

ninja
02-02-2005, 02:19 PM
wftw

'*****'
Shouldn't that be:

wftw

'*****'

Metla
02-02-2005, 02:20 PM
What you have to understand is that Bruce is only human.

As we all are.

Except we get punished for it.

And his post was the mother of of all bitches, directed directly at the forum users.

Congrats.

MMM
02-02-2005, 02:23 PM
1] No one at IDG is paid to provide tech help on this forum. ....+ all bits in the middle....
For the record, Robo quit - because he was sick of all this.
:thumbs: Cool...give that man a DB!

~sy~
02-02-2005, 03:45 PM
What you have to understand is that Bruce is only human.

As we all are.

Except we get punished for it.

And his post was the mother of of all bitches, directed directly at the forum users.

Congrats.
Exactly what I mean. How can some people get told off for giving an obvious suggestion when you go 'bitching' through the thread. It looks like the whole concept of PF1 ain't working as it should. Can we not get back to the good old days when robo was the sole moderator? Yes, we have suggested moderators to be more strict -but at the moment the way they are doing it, it's having a negative effect.

Tell me off if you like. While I used to love moderators and hate some 'general people', it is not always the case anymore. Just because you are moderator does not give you the authority to be in control of everybody from head to toe.

... might as well do a 'Stu' and leave now before it all turns up in flames :(

Metla
02-02-2005, 04:01 PM
Personally I'm fine with it, Its their forum they can landscape it how they like.

500 word ***** posts are a bit on the nose though, Shouldn't be letting such minor nothings stress them.




And I do belive i hold something of a record for getting my Metla account banned 3 times in a week,and 2 secondary accounts during the same period.

lmao.

Chilling_Silence
02-02-2005, 04:16 PM
My thoughts are:
Its Mod/Admins decision on what can/cant be blocked.
I dunno bout you lot but Im not omnipresent and cant read everythign all the time.

If we edit a post, dont take it badly, it happens to everybody....
Bruce is right, you guys seem to complain about pretty much everything. Why?

~sy~:
Dont like it?
Why not be constructive and make a positive suggestiong rather than a negative comment?


Chill.

TonyF
02-02-2005, 04:23 PM
The Rules are quite clear, as is the material on not abusing Forum folk. I don't see that the Moderators are a problem - they are there to keep order, despite what ~sy~ seems to think.
It seems that a major difficulty is those few folk who burst into flames when a Mod picks them up about something.
Chill is right - everyone think before blasting into print.
Cheers all]
T

~sy~
02-02-2005, 04:37 PM
Get it right, I do not think the mods are more of a problem than the users, however, going through a post with the '*****' in every single sentence ain't gonna help.

You want my suggestion? See above, and treat everybody equally. I don't want my self treated better than others, or others treated better. At times, I can (and am sure others can too) see that some individuals are told off because of their 'past'. No-this is not about myself. It's about treatment for people other than myself who I think should be treated better for their valuable contributions.

Edit: Another suggestion -Perhaps we could start replying to people who do use the 'Report Post' button. Must admit, at times, I use it alot for big and small things (all to report posts I think ain't most appropriate). Over half the time, I do not get a reply. Even if you think my comments are not right, perhaps a reply of 'No, we think the comment are still in the boundaries of the rules' would be good.

Murray P
02-02-2005, 04:49 PM
Tell me off if you like. While I used to love moderators and hate some 'general people', it is not always the case anymore. Just because you are moderator does not give you the authority to be in control of everybody from head to toe.

... might as well do a 'Stu' and leave now before it all turns up in flames :(

Not a flame I hope ~sy~ but, "control from head to toe", really.

Shift your body weight to your legs and thus to your feet, stand and swivel then walk out the door to where ever you wish to go. You don't have to do this immediately, do it in your own good time, ignore me and stay exactly where you are if you wish, blow a rasberry ;)

Ahhh rats! I've just realised I'm not a Mod, so testing your autonomy in this way doesn't count, does it!

I actually prefer the new forums. I had my doubts, but it works so, give it a chance peeps, It is after all the sum of its parts, you, me and the rest of you. I know self crtitism can be healthy at times but jeez, every time someone vents their spleen about the forum, it's acknowledging a failing on their own part as much as anyone elses.

<Hypocrisy> :groan: Ahh, I wouldn't mind the edited posts left in place with a note saying "Edited by Admin" so that context isn't entirely ruined :groan: </Hypocrisy>











PS. Hope your soap tastes better than mine BB :D

Chilling_Silence
02-02-2005, 04:49 PM
Just because you write "I expect a reply" doesnt mean you'll get one.

Im sorry but this is just a hobby or passtime, somthing done voluntarily.

Believe me, we read every single reported post (And there can be a bl00dy lot of them some times) so if you dont get a reply, why not assume that we feel that way?

Sam I Am
02-02-2005, 06:49 PM
Good Grief. Some of you lot are ungratefull prats.

If you dont like the rules then sod off elsewhere.

I mean really. Take the hint. Listen to what Bruce, Mary, Jen and Chill are saying. Follow the rules. Try not to snipe at each other.

People are here to:

A: Get help
B: Help those in group A:

Pretty simple really.

Incomming!!!!!

Scouse
02-02-2005, 07:29 PM
Hi Sy. I have made a single message to the Mods, pointing out a very commercial ad that I thought was illegal. It disappeared straight away and I received a nice message of reply from Jen. Thanks Jen. :cool:

Raikyn
02-02-2005, 09:04 PM
I think I'll just post the same thing I posted last time this went on



BTW ever six months or so every large forum tends to break down for a week or two.

People saying that the mods are not doing their job.
People saying that the mods are too strict.
People getting banned.
People coming back as aliases.

In the end the people make the forum :)


Looks like for this place it's about four months instead of six :thumbs:

Sue
02-02-2005, 09:55 PM
I just want to say thanks to all the moderators & members here that spend their spare time helping folks in a mess. The fun Chat posts make a nice change of pace too.
The rules are straightforward and we agreed to abide by them when subscribing.
It's great having a lively, Kiwi forum with up to date Kiwi information instead of the usual US centric lot.
Anyway, THANK YOU.

Laura
03-02-2005, 05:03 AM
Sue has made some very good points - cheerfully and courteously. I agree with her.

Sam I Am has made some very good points - and phrased them much more bluntly. I also agree with him.

And far from carping about Bruce's choice of words to express his understandable frustrations, I agree (and sympathise) with him. I'm not surprised he got cheesed off.
That trio of posts - taken together - saves me from finding words of my own....
Except that (Yes, there's always a proviso) I sometimes feel sorry for the regular carpers & whingers.
What a pity to have nothing better to occupy your mind than citicising others and complaining about personal slights on a computer HELP forum.

I wonder how those who can't keep minor irritations in perspective will cope with important real life problems as they appear.
Sad, eh?

JJJJJ
03-02-2005, 06:08 AM
I have just read this thread from start to finish. The first thing that struck me was the fact that nearly all the posts were from the same lot that always crop up in simliar threads. The people I mentaly think of as the school kids.

Yet these same people can offer excellent advice and comments on computer problems. So you are not all stupid.

Bruce's posting was excellant and well timed. I agree with everything he said.In fact he was much better controlled than I would have been in his position.

I enjoy reading other peoples opinions on a variety of subjects ,but threads like this one are not interesting. Something like listening to a group of spoiled kids squabling amomgst themselves.

And just one further comment, BRING BACK ROBO !!!!

Jack

Prescott
03-02-2005, 05:03 PM
:rolleyes:
jeez this thread sure is negative.........

JJJJJ
03-02-2005, 05:41 PM
:rolleyes:
jeez this thread sure is negative.........

Yes.
Jack

Billy T
03-02-2005, 06:34 PM
Yes Jack, it is rather negative, and it can tell us an awful lot about what's wrong with PF1, and it isn't the format, the mods or avatars.

PF1 is a microcosm of our society at large. It has a majority of largely invisible members who are polite and helpful Netizens. They don't feel the need to swear, use acronyms or asterisks to hide swearing, use put-downs, sarcasm or rudeness on users (new and old) who perhaps don't think as clearly as they could before posting or are actually unaware of the obvious, or any of the other silly malarky that keeps the Mods busy.

As in wider society, the world of PF1 has its minority of rebels (with and without causes), authority haters, intolerant attitudes, immaturity (regardless of age) stirrers and general rule flouters. That's life, and you meet the same mix at work, school, in sports, on the roads, in the pubs, on the street or any anywhere else people may gather. That is also why we have police, referees, HR managers, bouncers, parking wardens, moderators and any other authority-figure group dedicated to keeping their particular minority group in line,

If PF1 users could just self-moderate their own activities, like the automatic transmission delay on talkback shows perhaps, we wouldn't need moderators, Bruce's blood pressure would go down, robo might come back, Jen could get on with her own work and Chill could spend more time on computing issues, his first love.

We are what we eat, or in this case, write, self included, no excuses. All we need to make it work is civility, good humour, good manners, tolerance, and a clear vision of why we are here at all, if not to help others?

Cheers

Billy 8-{) :2cents:

ninja
03-02-2005, 10:56 PM
Sorry did anyone hear anything? Whatever it was, was kinda drowned out by the sound of someones own trumpet.

Cheers

Ninja #*&%) :$smiley:

E|im
04-02-2005, 01:08 AM
Sorry did anyone hear anything? Whatever it was, was kinda drowned out by the sound of someones own trumpet.

Cheers

Ninja #*&%) :$smiley:
ROFL :lol: :lol:

FoxyMX
04-02-2005, 10:03 AM
We never implemented a filter list as we didn't feel the need, so if words are filtered out its likely its been used wrongly and we've added it.
We may not be able to please everybody all the time, but we try our best.
Wait!!

Have you seen Chris Keall's Editor's Notes in this month's PC World? Right in the middle of the piece about the new forum he announces that there is now a "profanity filter". :eek:

No doubt there will be a few raised eyebrows after some people have read the end of Whetu's first post in this thread (http://pressf1.pcworld.co.nz/showthread.php?t=54041#post319277) when they ask themselves exactly how bad does language need to get before it is classed as profane on this forum. :rolleyes:

Metla
04-02-2005, 10:13 AM
Its times like these that i want to break out into a song, which is bad because I am a terrible singer, have no reason to be singing, and people nearby would most probally think i just went stark raving mad........

E|im
04-02-2005, 03:36 PM
Its times like these that i want to break out into a song, which is bad because I am a terrible singer, have no reason to be singing, and people nearby would most probally think i just went stark raving mad........
It wouldn't be any use Metla, your singing would just get drowned out by that trumpet. :annoyed:

beetle
04-02-2005, 07:44 PM
It wouldn't be any use Metla, your singing would just get drowned out by that trumpet.


ROFLMAO now thats funny..........


and wangavegus is pretty small so we probably hear the cat call from here.....
:p

b

Antmannz
04-02-2005, 09:56 PM
This thread made 4 pages !!??

Elephant
04-02-2005, 10:25 PM
Over 1/2 your posts are on this forum.

Possibly. Thank you for counting my posts.

I want to thank you for that.

I was under the impression that vBulletin does it for me and who cares about post counts anyway?

Was there any point in you checking out how many posts I did and in which Forum?

Would you like to explain?

E|im
04-02-2005, 11:07 PM
Possibly. Thank you for counting my posts.

I want to thank you for that.

I was under the impression that vBulletin does it for me and who cares about post counts anyway?

Was there any point in you checking out how many posts I did and in which Forum?

Would you like to explain?
Wow that was posted 5 pages and three days ago. We've since moved on. :rolleyes:

ninja
04-02-2005, 11:16 PM
Would you like to explain?<obvious>If you'd actually read the post, you'll find I quoted you in it when you said:
You might notice that I have not replied very often on this Forum lately
You also made this comment:

I am pleased that PressF1 has been divided into two so that those of us who don't want to read all the off topic stuff don't need to.So for someone that doesn't post in this forum very often, and is pleased that there is a separate chat forum so you don't have to read OT stuff, it was rather amusing to see that over 1/2 your posts were in the forum you don't post in and don't read.</obvious> :groan:

Chilling_Silence
04-02-2005, 11:51 PM
Ninja:
Sorry, but the comments really arent neccesary.
Funny they may be, but you need to be more aware of other users whos tolerance is not as strong as yours

To the user who reported this:
While I enjoy wasting away my evening reading long reasons, a simple "This user is being an ******* again" would suffice.

E|im:
While I love your sense of humor, egging on Metla doesnt help ;)

ninja
04-02-2005, 11:56 PM
Ninja:
Sorry, but the comments really arent neccesary.I'm sorry what?

Which comments? If it's related to the post directly above yours, I was merely responding to his question.


While I enjoy wasting away my evening reading long reasons, a simple "This user is being an ******* again" would suffice.And aren't you supposed to be a moderator? Or are you taking a leaf from Bruce's manual and slinging around personal insults because you are beyond moderation?

Moderators now encourage users to insult other members. I think I'll take that on board, being careful to avoid words that get replaced by asterisks so as not to lose any meaning.

Chilling_Silence
05-02-2005, 12:18 AM
Thing is, you can say whatever you like when reporting a post, and thats my point - I dont want to hear every gory little feeling that crossed your head while writing it.

Tell it like it is, Im sick of all the crap thats flung around.

If you dont like how a user is acting, dont dress it up coz Im not interested and chances are Im more likely to get annoyed at the person reporting because they're just wasting my time.

That is the point Im getting at.

beetle
05-02-2005, 07:04 PM
EH?????????
who ya talking to or at Chill?

so you want report post removed then? :p

i have never used it so have no comment on its use's..LOL

But yes i believe that because you are a mod, does mean that you do refine your language and do not use profane words to people, both on and off line, no matter what you think when it spills out, its not good protocol or kharma? (sp?)

this does not reflect well on you, if you start talking down to people and using bad language as well.
be professional and do not let personal gripes come into it.
easier said than done i know.

but that sort of language wins no friends,

just more enemies.

and im not taking sides, but when a person talks like that using excessive profanity it degrades themselves and not the person it is aimed at.

I hate that A word, and a whole pile of other words, and see no reason why you should show the world this sort of blasphemy.? sp?

riot shield at the ready...:D

beetle

Chilling_Silence
07-02-2005, 12:00 AM
Point noted.

I was not making comment against any of the users, rather stating that rather than a nice long speil that several of the users like to give, I would rather they kept it short and sweet and to the point.

I dont have all night to offer councelling sessions, but the thought of doing that is nice regardless.

So to clarify, and maybe put it a little better: If you're going to report a post, then Report it. A life story I need not hear ;)

Thanks for the feedback though Beetle :)


Chill.

beetle
07-02-2005, 12:13 PM
Wondered when you would see this.......:D

And i have been discretely told to watch the language to ..... :eek:
Point noted also.
Must learn to not be so serious :D

Maybe i should talk in chinese instead???? or French? Mandarin?

:p

beetle

FoxyMX
07-02-2005, 01:04 PM
Maybe i should talk in chinese instead???? or French? Mandarin?
Nah... Beetle Waffle is just fine. :p

Anyone who doesn't like it can always put you on their "Ignore List". :rolleyes:

Chilling_Silence
07-02-2005, 01:16 PM
Ive always wanted to learn another language.....

Et grce Babelfish je peux !

Antmannz
07-02-2005, 10:26 PM
Ive always wanted to learn another language.....

Here ya go then (http://www.google.com/intl/xx-klingon/) :)