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Cicero
18-01-2005, 11:48 AM
Judge Lindsay Moore's decision not to allow the defendant in an
insurance fraud case watch two unmasked Muslim women give evidence is
not good enough, ACT Justice spokesman Stephen Franks said today.

"It doesn't satisfy the fundamental principle that every accused
should have the right to face their accuser.

"Judge Moore's ruling allows only the legal establishment to see the
witnesses.

"This bizarre solicitude to Muslim sensitivities means that the
defendant is prohibited from even looking his own sister in the eye.

"I hope this aspect is appealed. If not, the Government should change
the law," Mr Franks said.

Edward
18-01-2005, 12:03 PM
I can't believe they [Muslims] trust the lawyers seeing them and not the defendant :D

JJJJJ
18-01-2005, 02:31 PM
Why is it that so many immigrants to this country demand the right to continue the customs of their own country.
If I had my way they would do things our way. Otherwise they would be out of the country so fast their feet wouldn't even touch the ground.
Jack

bartsdadhomer
18-01-2005, 02:54 PM
This is really starting to P*** me off
The vast sums of OUR taxpayers money (not theirs, cause most haven't got any) spent on this sort of PC rubbish.
We as a nation let all sorts of immigrants come & live here for all sorts of reasons
I don't think too many Kiwis are against taking in refugees & their families, It's part of our obligation as a nation to help others less fortunate than ourselves as long as it's within our means to do so
What really gets up my nose is the extaodinary lengths we go to to ensure we don't offend their sensibilities.
We feed, clothe & house them.
We supply jobs for those who want to work (and it seems once they have been here for a while, many of them soon learn they don't have to work, thanks to our over indulgent welfare system)
We change our School rules to accomodate them
I think it's about time refugees & other immigrants had to sign a waiver that they will agree to adapt to NZ ways, customs & laws or out you go
Back to wherever it was you came
If our ways are too difficult to abide by, go back home if it was so great.
It was more than likely religious differences that forced them out of their own country in the first place & it seems to me when they arrive here they are almost forcing their beliefs upon our society & crying foul when denied their so called "rights"
At the rate we are going this country will be broke.
We have enough on our plates settling our own historical troubles without emptying the treasury purses on new ones
The Ahmed Zaoui case has cost us a fortune & it's not over yet
In my opinion "When in Rome do as the Romans do"
Or find somewhere else that will better accommodate the needs of your family better than we can
And no I am not a racist or a radical I'm just an average Joe Bloggs who is sick of seeing Hospital waiting lists growing while we spend huge amounts on people who should be grateful we are as generous as we are
But never mind Helen will just move another 50 or so policemen from the crime units into patrol cars & start giving out even more tickest to fund this nonsense

I haven't sussed out how to do a poll on this forum yet, maybe someone could start one.
Burqa On or Burqa off

JJJJJ
18-01-2005, 03:05 PM
Well said bartsetc. I agree with every word.
The biggest problem in this country is our polititians. They promise us the world before the elections, but once elected they only have one guiding rule.
"Don't do anything that may stop me being re-elected next time"
Jack

MartynC
18-01-2005, 11:48 PM
They shouldn't wear it in court & here's why. I was in a jury last year on a "small" case. The Judge in his instructions to the jury said that the way a witness gives evidence (ie body language) is as important as the evidence they give. you can't see that with the face covered!

ninja
18-01-2005, 11:56 PM
Agree with all previously expressed sentiments (even JJJJJ's :eek: )

Cicero
19-01-2005, 12:04 AM
Agree with all previously expressed sentiments (even JJJJJ's :eek: )
From this unbiased cross section of NZ I think we can safely say we do not approve of this get up. :groan: :)

beama
19-01-2005, 12:09 AM
Respect

I believe a good comprimise has been attained in this case, if the lawers defence or proscution feel that the whole truth is not being given ( by reading body lanuage or other means) they can direct the questions accordly.
A point about body lanuage, it changes from culture to culture, ( not looking directly into another person eyes could be a sign of respect in one culture, in another an indication of not telling the complete truth) so unless you are an expert in body lanuage and you know the cultural quirks it is not always a good indicator.

somebody
19-01-2005, 07:50 AM
This is really starting to P*** me off
The vast sums of OUR taxpayers money (not theirs, cause most haven't got any) spent on this sort of PC rubbish.
We as a nation let all sorts of immigrants come & live here for all sorts of reasons
I don't think too many Kiwis are against taking in refugees & their families, It's part of our obligation as a nation to help others less fortunate than ourselves as long as it's within our means to do so
What really gets up my nose is the extaodinary lengths we go to to ensure we don't offend their sensibilities.
We feed, clothe & house them.
We supply jobs for those who want to work (and it seems once they have been here for a while, many of them soon learn they don't have to work, thanks to our over indulgent welfare system)
We change our School rules to accomodate them
I think it's about time refugees & other immigrants had to sign a waiver that they will agree to adapt to NZ ways, customs & laws or out you go
Back to wherever it was you came
If our ways are too difficult to abide by, go back home if it was so great.
It was more than likely religious differences that forced them out of their own country in the first place & it seems to me when they arrive here they are almost forcing their beliefs upon our society & crying foul when denied their so called "rights"
At the rate we are going this country will be broke.
We have enough on our plates settling our own historical troubles without emptying the treasury purses on new ones
The Ahmed Zaoui case has cost us a fortune & it's not over yet
In my opinion "When in Rome do as the Romans do"
Or find somewhere else that will better accommodate the needs of your family better than we can
And no I am not a racist or a radical I'm just an average Joe Bloggs who is sick of seeing Hospital waiting lists growing while we spend huge amounts on people who should be grateful we are as generous as we are
But never mind Helen will just move another 50 or so policemen from the crime units into patrol cars & start giving out even more tickest to fund this nonsense

I haven't sussed out how to do a poll on this forum yet, maybe someone could start one.
Burqa On or Burqa off

In the court system everyone should be treated as equals. In everyday live, people should be allowed to exercise their beliefs, whether it be religious, cultural or otherwise. It's unfair to demand that people throw away their beliefs, their customs and traditions. If you went to an Islamic country with your family and kids, would you want to throw away your Kiwi way of life, and adapt to theirs?

Cicero
19-01-2005, 08:01 AM
In the court system everyone should be treated as equals. In everyday live, people should be allowed to exercise their beliefs, whether it be religious, cultural or otherwise. It's unfair to demand that people throw away their beliefs, their customs and traditions. If you went to an Islamic country with your family and kids, would you want to throw away your Kiwi way of life, and adapt to theirs?

Your wife should try getting around in shorts and tank top in Saudi Arabia,not a problem is she is to stoning.

Safari
19-01-2005, 08:32 AM
In the court system everyone should be treated as equals. In everyday live, people should be allowed to exercise their beliefs, whether it be religious, cultural or otherwise. It's unfair to demand that people throw away their beliefs, their customs and traditions. If you went to an Islamic country with your family and kids, would you want to throw away your Kiwi way of life, and adapt to theirs?

Everyone should be treated equally in the court system.

If you went to an Islamic country you would not have any choice but to adapt to their way of life.
Where have you been all your life, have you ever been out of your soft, shelted NZ existance.

bartsdadhomer
19-01-2005, 09:57 AM
In the court system everyone should be treated as equals. In everyday live, people should be allowed to exercise their beliefs, whether it be religious, cultural or otherwise. It's unfair to demand that people throw away their beliefs, their customs and traditions. If you went to an Islamic country with your family and kids, would you want to throw away your Kiwi way of life, and adapt to theirs?

Agreed, I didn't mean to give the impression that immigrants should throw away their beliefs & I certainly don't mean any offence to anyone, it's the mix of beliefs & cultures that make the world an interesting place. And I certainly have no right to ask someone to do this.
But as a Kiwi, I feel I do have the right to expect immigrants to conform to our legal system & practices.

Your comment "If you went to an Islamic country with your family and kids, would you want to throw away your Kiwi way of life, and adapt to theirs?" makes me think you are a younger person.
The facts are you would have no choice but to conform to their way of life.
Just try cracking a stubbie on your deck while cooking the bbq & see what will happen to you.

I also think I have the right for myself & my childrens future & kiwi way of life, not to have pay vast sums of money to accomodate someones beliefs & cutural sensitivities.
Nor do I expect my parlimentary representatives to change any laws that will cater for these people, although I do expect them to have plans & policies in place that will help them integrate into NZ society successfully.
At the current rate of immigration NZ's population by the year 2020 will compromise 27% Asian immigrants
This does not include Pacific Islanders, Afghans, Ethiopians, English, South Africans etc & other immigrants & refugees.
This is certainly changing the face of NZ & it is us that are in danger of losing our cultural identity

As a friend of mine who is a Maori married to a Pakeha pointed out recently, it is not only the historical issues we need to address, but the issues facing us in the coming years as our own identities are eroded as the balance of governance shifts as more immigrants stand for & acheive power in the form of parlimentarians, Mayors, business leaders etc.
A major concern of his is the foreshore & seabed issues.
According to him there won't be an issue shortly as there won't be any foreshore or seabed.
The foreshores are being sold off to wealthy overseas investors at a staggering rate & immigrants seem to think they can go to the beach & take whatever they want & whatever size they want, effectively stripping stretches of coastline that will take many many years to recover, therefore denying his children their customary rights.

Have a look around, a few short years ago you wouldn't have seen an Asian Mayor or member of parliment, there are quite a number now.
Please don't think I'm Asian or anyone else bashing, I have a number of friends of various ethnicities, I'm just concerned about the "Kiwi way of life" I enjoy so much & I want it preserved for my Children & Grandchildren.

I think it's long past the time our politicians took a long hard look at the situation & adopted a sensible long term solution to ensure our way of life stays exactly as it is.
Rant over (for today)

somebody
19-01-2005, 10:24 AM
Agreed, I didn't mean to give the impression that immigrants should throw away their beliefs, it's the mix of beliefs & cultures that make the world an interesting place. And I certainly have no right to ask someone to do this.
But as a Kiwi, I feel I do have the right to expect immigrants to conform to our legal system & practices.
But your comment "If you went to an Islamic country with your family and kids, would you want to throw away your Kiwi way of life, and adapt to theirs?" makes me think you are a younger person.
The facts are you would have no choice but to conform to their way of life.
Just try cracking a stubbie on your deck while cooking the bbq & see what will happen to you.
I also think I have the right for myself & my childrens future & kiwi way of life, not to have pay vast sums of money to accomodate someones beliefs & cutural sensitivities.
Nor do I expect my parlimentary representatives to change any laws that will cater for these people, although I do expect them to have plans & policies in place that will help them integrate into NZ society successfully.
At the current rate of immigration NZ's population by the year 2020 will compromise 27% Asian immigrants
This does not include Pacific Islanders, Afghans, Ethiopians, English, South Africans etc & other immigrants & refugees.
This is certainly changing the face of NZ & it is us that are in danger of losing our cultural identity
As a friend of mine who is a Maori married to a Pakeha pointed out recently, it is not only the historical issues we need to address, but the issues facing us in the coming years as our own identities are eroded as the balance of governance shifts as more immigrants stand for & acheive power in the form of parlimentarians, Mayors, business leaders etc.
A major concern of his is the foreshore & seabed issues.
According to him there won't be an issue shortly as there won't be any foreshore or seabed.
The foreshores are being sold off to wealthy overseas investors at a staggering rate & immigrants seem to think they can go to the beach & take whatever they want & whatever size they want, effectively stripping stretches of coastline that will take many many years to recover, therefore denying his children their customary rights.
Have a look around, a few short years ago you wouldn't have seen an Asian Mayor or member of parliment, there are quite a number now.
Please don't think I'm Asian or anyone else bashing, I have a number of friends of various ethnicities, I'm just concerned about the "Kiwi way of life" I enjoy so much & I want it preserved for my Children & Grandchildren.
I think it's long past the time our politicians took a long hard look at the situation & adopted a sensible long term solution to ensure our way of life stays exactly as it is.
Rant over (for today)

Oops - I must have misunderstood what you were trying to say. I agree wholly with what you are saying - there are people who simply do not seem to care about what the law says, and try to find ways go "get around" them. This unfortunately includes a number of "NZ" people. The Kiwi way of life is (in my opinion) one of the best in the world, and it needs to be preserved, while welcoming other cultures into our country as well. Immigrants play a huge part in our economy and society, and assist in bringing trade to NZ from their home countries. What we as a country need to do is to get the right balance, so everyone can be happy in a rich, multicultural society.

At the moment with our politicians and government departments with little or no common sense, we see events like Ahmed Zaoui staying in NZ for 2 years even though he was a "security risk", while a teenage Sri Lankan girl who had allegedly been sexually abused in her home country was forcibly deported, simply is not the message we should be sending out to the international community. Taking in illegal immigrants which Australia does not want to deal with (Tampa refugees) is not the way to "help" people - instead we should let those who follow the correct procedures, those who have the skills and qualifications no matter where they are from, have priority in the queue for residency, rather than say to potential refugees "jump on a boat illegally destined for NZ, let it sink, and you can come into NZ and everyone will feel sorry for you".

The "one law for all" debate isn't just between immigrants and more settled NZers. It's also between Maori and Non-Maori people. Don Brash's Orewa speech brought this into the public arena, where he basically said what a huge proportion of NZers have been thinking for years, but were not willing to say for fear of being criticised as "non PC". Within reason, people's cultures should be respected, but it cannot go overboard. For instance, someone with a 1/16 Maori bloodline can claim that they are "Maori", jump on the Maori electoral roll, and gain special priviledges - in the HB area for instance, the local Health dept. will subsidise "Maori families" visits to their local GP, including any transport costs such as a taxi fare, whereas non-Maori families who might be in a very bad financial situation do not get these priviledges. This recent debate with the two women in court and their burkas is also an interesting situation. Although the women are citing religious reasons for hiding their faces, maybe they feel threatened that if their identities are revealed their safety could be at risk. I think the court has made the right decision in this case - the judge, jury and court officials can positively identify that these women are the correct witnesses, while their safety is protected by hiding their identies. Other court cases have taken place in NZ courts where witnesses have given evidence behind a screen, so only the judge and jury can see them, to protect their identites - why not in this situation?

Metla
19-01-2005, 10:24 AM
Things change, Populations change, No skin off my nose if the country(Auckland) becomes more of one then the other.

Hard case though if in 100 years time the white lads are claiming back all the land because their grandfathers sold it off to the Asians for market value at the time......

Metla
19-01-2005, 10:28 AM
My bet is that the 2 woman were pressured by their husbands not to show their faces, Because then the world would see how ugly their wives are and they would be shamed......

Muhahahaha.


OMG......quick quick,put that damn sheet back over your face,You an affront to god.....

bartsdadhomer
19-01-2005, 10:38 AM
Oops - I must have misunderstood what you were trying to say. I agree wholly with what you are saying - there are people who simply do not seem to care about what the law says, and try to find ways go "get around" them. .................................................. .................................................. .....
.................................................. .................................................. .....
while their safety is protected by hiding their identies. Other court cases have taken place in NZ courts where witnesses have given evidence behind a screen, so only the judge and jury can see them, to protect their identites - why not in this situation?
Well said

JJJJJ
19-01-2005, 11:09 AM
My bet is that the 2 woman were pressured by their husbands not to show their faces, Because then the world would see how ugly their wives are and they would be shamed......

.....

And I thought I was the only one who would think such a thing.
Jack

~sy~
19-01-2005, 11:49 AM
I'm not going to offer my comment, but I'm quite suprised Growly hasn't replied.

Terry Porritt
19-01-2005, 11:59 AM
The mass movement of peoples around the world is happening everywhere due to population pressures. There is no way to stop it or to reverse the tide.

What is happening now in New Zealand, and especially since Jim Bolger declared this country to be part of Asia, started in England after World War 2. Until legislation was rushed through Parliament, literally hundreds of millions of inhabitants of the former 'Empire' were entitled as of right to ask for a British passport and go to live in England.

The first to arrive were Jamaicans in the late 1940s onwards. They were given priority council housing ahead of indigenous Brits, mainly because they rapidly turned the Victorian housing they went into, to slum conditions. Whereas the white people living in the same type of housing that had been due for demolition for the previous 30 odd years, kept the properties in good condition as well as they were able.
A lot of ill feeling was generated, and formed the basis of subsequent prejudice. Housing was in very short supply anyway because bombing.

One of my grans lived in such appalling property, basically one room upstairs, one room downstairs and coal cellar. Outside toilet shared between 4 households.

By the 1970s virtually whole cities had become 'alien', Leeds, Bradford, Wolverhampton, large chunks of Birmingham and the West midlands etc.

It is something I think that has to be accepted as inevitable.

bartsdadhomer
19-01-2005, 01:38 PM
The mass movement of peoples around the world is happening everywhere due to population pressures. There is no way to stop it or to reverse the tide.
It is something I think that has to be accepted as inevitable.

Yes the world's growing population is putting a strain on resources & it's up to individual governments & the global community to control it.
But this doesn't mean every other country has to accept the overspill.
It's pretty simple from where I sit.
No, I'm sorry you can't come & live here.
Tha last thing we want here is exactly what England has on it's plate at the moment, evergrowing communities of slums & ending up just as overcrowded & poor as the countries some immigrants & refugees are coming here to get away from.
Not to mention the ever growing crime rate as a result.

manicminer
19-01-2005, 07:05 PM
Why is it that so many immigrants to this country demand the right to continue the customs of their own country.
If I had my way they would do things our way. Otherwise they would be out of the country so fast their feet wouldn't even touch the ground.
Jack
Too right. I had to get used to cold beer since moving from the UK and haven't looked back since!
One thing I do insist on though is calling Football "Football" and not "Soccer".

As much as I think we need to tolerate other people's differences, religions and whatever in order to get along in the world, I don't agree that that should mean we make sacrifices for our own way of living.
I'm sick and tired of immigrants coming over here and inflicting their beliefs on our society. They certainly wouldn't be bending over backwards for us and making allowances if we were in their country. I find Muslims, in general, particularly arrogant in this regard.

rodb
19-01-2005, 10:07 PM
Islam is a militaristic religion with no respect for human rights - stoning minor criminals to death, etc. - and its practice should not be tolerated in this country. All adherents should be dispatched to whatever Muslim country will have them, and no others allowed in. Like Catholics they have large numbers of children with the object of taking over the world, and should therefore not be encouraged.
Our forefathers came here with various strange Christian beliefs which are clearly rubbish and we have struggled for years to rid ourselves of this problem (and not yet succeeded).
In fact, any immigrant should abide by NZ laws and customs or else go back home.

Cicero
19-01-2005, 10:20 PM
Islam is a militaristic religion with no respect for human rights - stoning minor criminals to death, etc. - and its practice should not be tolerated in this country. All adherents should be dispatched to whatever Muslim country will have them, and no others allowed in. Like Catholics they have large numbers of children with the object of taking over the world, and should therefore not be encouraged.
Our forefathers came here with various strange Christian beliefs which are clearly rubbish and we have struggled for years to rid ourselves of this problem (and not yet succeeded).
In fact, any immigrant should abide by NZ laws and customs or else go back home.

Very profound Bob,thank you for that.

manicminer
19-01-2005, 10:28 PM
I mostly agree with you Rodb. Though I can see such bold statements encouraging the wrath of a few pc individuals.
One could start a whole new topic just on immigration alone.
I just hope New Zealand doesn't go down the road of Britain and succomb to mass immigration. With a small population here, it wouldn't take much for ethnic minority to suddenly become a majority and then, before you know it, we'll suddenly become an overpopulated extension of Asia (and I don't think Asians living here now would particularly want that). One has to wonder why westernized countries such as New Zealand and Australia are such popular destinations for migrants from these countries. We have an attractive lifestyle and a beautiful country in which to live. The only way we can keep it this way is by keeping the population to a sustainable minimum.

MartynC
19-01-2005, 10:54 PM
But we will Keep getting the immigration patterns we have, as they are more likely to vote Labour ;)

Terry Porritt
20-01-2005, 07:51 AM
But we will Keep getting the immigration patterns we have, as they are more likely to vote Labour ;)

Ahem, unable to keep out of this :)

It was National under Jim Bolger that opened the gates wide ;)

Before all us Anglo-Saxons gets hot under the collar, about what is happening to their country, just consider the Maori perspective of white colonial invasion, and how that did, and does affect their perspective.

Terry Porritt
20-01-2005, 08:15 AM
Also remember, it was the New Right that introduced entreprenuership conitions of entry whereby people could buy their way into the country.

It was also the New Right atmosphere that spawned the "Immigration Consultant" industry exemplified by ex-National MP Aussie Malcom. All these types argued for greater immigration, ostensibly to improve our economy, but really to line their pockets.

Going back again to the controlled 1970s when I arrived here, there were strict rules about how much land could be bought. Can't remember the details, but it was something like 2 or 5 acres. Any more , eg a farm, and there were criteria that had to be met. Sorry cant give chapter and verse on this.

The New Right threw that all away, so anyone can now come and buy up New Zealand. Just think if Bill Gates decided he would like to add New Zealand to his real estate :eek:

somebody
20-01-2005, 08:30 AM
Islam is a militaristic religion with no respect for human rights - stoning minor criminals to death, etc. - and its practice should not be tolerated in this country. All adherents should be dispatched to whatever Muslim country will have them, and no others allowed in. Like Catholics they have large numbers of children with the object of taking over the world, and should therefore not be encouraged.
Our forefathers came here with various strange Christian beliefs which are clearly rubbish and we have struggled for years to rid ourselves of this problem (and not yet succeeded).
In fact, any immigrant should abide by NZ laws and customs or else go back home.

While we must respect other people's beliefs, those people also must respect human rights and the laws of this nation. These people can dress how they want, pray however they want, eat what they want, so long as their practices do not infringe NZ's laws. In saying that, all NZers need to abide by the laws of this country, or face the penalties, not just immigrants. Proportionally, a huge amount of crime is still commited by "traditionals" NZers, both Maori and Pakeha.

NZ needs immigration to grow - we have a huge shortage of skilled labour, there are still huge numbers of NZers going overseas, and in order for the country to sustain it's economic status on the world stage, we need the immigration from all around the world.

Cicero
20-01-2005, 08:58 AM
Does it all boil down to prejudice?

Today’s meaning of prejudice comes close to this. Without examining a person on his or her own merit, we have already adopted a negative attitude that implies a judgment. A prejudice is a mixture of beliefs and feelings that predisposes people to respond negatively to members of a particular group.

It leads one to select certain facts for emphasis,blinding one to other facts.It causes one to look on all members of a group as if they were all alike.

Worth a thought,do you think?

Metla
20-01-2005, 09:54 AM
economic status on the world stage?

What economic status?

We are are a tiny tiny spec on the bottom of the world, a couple of small islands that are barely populated, Living off the supply lines through Aussie.


And if everyone chooses to leave, Doesn't that say something about the country?

If our elected officials do such a great job that everybody leaves and is replaced by "skilled labour" then we got what we deserved.

Terry Porritt
20-01-2005, 10:09 AM
....
If our elected officials do such a great job that everybody leaves and is replaced by "skilled labour" then we got what we deserved.

I'm really with you there Metla. Before all the reforms of 1984 onwards, NZ had lots of skilled labour, and highly skilled too. Just look at all the manufacturing that went on. We had schemes called apprenticeships, that became a dirty word, and since then this country has just lived off it's 'seed corn'.

bartsdadhomer
20-01-2005, 10:19 AM
NZ needs immigration to grow - we have a huge shortage of skilled labour, there are still huge numbers of NZers going overseas, and in order for the country to sustain it's economic status on the world stage, we need the immigration from all around the world.
Don't think anyone would argue with that at all
BUT we can afford to be very selective, a lot more selective than we are now.
We can easily afford to be fussy who we let live here, the queue is very long.
The criteria seems to be more about how much cash you are bringing with you rather than what you can contribute to NZ.
Bringing a bulging bank account to gain entry, then sending the money home again is very common.
I personally know of several cases like this.
So is all the free health, birth & dental care they recieve, which puts added pressure on those services & Kiwi kids are put on waiting lists
This is one area I feel there should be a 5yr waiting period before immigrants can access our free health services. (except refugees of course)
What is the use of letting Indian doctors settle here only to add to the countries ever growing taxi cab population because they can't practice here.
As I said we can afford to be very fussy as we hold the keys to the door

somebody
20-01-2005, 12:22 PM
Don't think anyone would argue with that at all
BUT we can afford to be very selective, a lot more selective than we are now.
We can easily afford to be fussy who we let live here, the queue is very long.
The criteria seems to be more about how much cash you are bringing with you rather than what you can contribute to NZ.
Bringing a bulging bank account to gain entry, then sending the money home again is very common.
I personally know of several cases like this.
So is all the free health, birth & dental care they recieve, which puts added pressure on those services & Kiwi kids are put on waiting lists
This is one area I feel there should be a 5yr waiting period before immigrants can access our free health services. (except refugees of course)
What is the use of letting Indian doctors settle here only to add to the countries ever growing taxi cab population because they can't practice here.
As I said we can afford to be very fussy as we hold the keys to the door

At this point in time there have been a lot of skilled immigrants, often with very high qualifications (doctors, scientists etc.) but nobody employs them because of their race. That's why we have a growing Indian taxi driver population, because instead of jumping on the welfare train, they go and get a job. We have a doctor shortage in many of the provinces, and NZ has the people to fill those positions, but until people's racial prejudices change, we'll continue to have more fish & chip shops, more dairies, more taxi drivers, instead of the people we really need.

manicminer
20-01-2005, 07:45 PM
At this point in time there have been a lot of skilled immigrants, often with very high qualifications (doctors, scientists etc.) but nobody employs them because of their race. That's why we have a growing Indian taxi driver population, because instead of jumping on the welfare train, they go and get a job. We have a doctor shortage in many of the provinces, and NZ has the people to fill those positions, but until people's racial prejudices change, we'll continue to have more fish & chip shops, more dairies, more taxi drivers, instead of the people we really need.

I don't know about all this racial prejudice business. One can't deny it exists, but don't blow it out of proportion. Just because a highly skilled person comes here and can't get a job, does not automatically mean they are being discriminated against.
Alot has to do with the job market here. There simply aren't enough highly skilled jobs out there. When there are, there are a huge number of applicants. This could partly be why so many fresh graduates are forced to go overseas to get skilled work and years of experience, simply because there aren't the opportunities here.
I dont know about now, but a while ago all you had to do to get into the country was pass a points test based on age, qualifications, work experience etc. Alot of people could come here with some capital in hand but without a job lined up. The result was alot of highly qualified people come here looking for a better quality of life, but being disheartened by the lack of career opportunities.
Maybe what NZ really needs are alot more highly skilled job positions being created - but that doesn't happen overnight.