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Jase1
30-09-2003, 09:26 AM
Hi there

I have this 80GB HDD, I want to put 2 OS on it. Win98Se and WinXp Pro, I did this before but I didn't realise that OS must be put on a Primary partition, before I just put one OS on Primary and one on an Extended (were there any harm to the HDD when I did this?).

Basically I just want to split my HDD into 3 parts: 1 for Win98Se, 1 for WinXP Pro and 1 small part for backing up my files. So I should have 2 Primary partitions and 1...logical or should it be extended?

I've read the FAQ#2 Multi-booting a Windows System and the FAQ#34 How to partition using FDISK in the FAQ section. Its either that I've keep missing where it says how to create multiple Primary partitions or it's not there at all. I have already create 1 Primary partition and when I want to create another one, it just keep saying 'Primary DOS partition already exist' :( .

I know I'm doing something wrong or I'm missing a very important step somewhere in here. Please help ^^



Thanks




Jase Sen

Barnabas
30-09-2003, 10:18 AM
Hi Jase, heres a rough guide as to what you have to do: NB its not possible to create two primary partitions and no it wont harm your harddrive. You have to have 1 on an extended partition.

1)Start fdisk, delete all your partitions just to make it easier.
2)Create a primary partition of whatever size you want. This partition will have Win98 on it as you need to install this first.
3)Exit Fdisk and then install Win98. I know you havent created any other extended partitions yet but dont worry about it.
4)When you've done your win98 install boot from your xp cd. This will give you the option to create a new drive in the freespace of whatever size you want. You can create your backup drive space here too.
Install xp as normal. When you start your computer you will have a choice of which os you want to boot from.
There are other ways to do this but Ive found this to be the easiest.
hope this helps.
B.

Jase1
30-09-2003, 10:42 AM
Thanks a lot for rough guide, it makes my partitioning a whole lot easier than that 6 pages FAQ that I've just read. I'll post back if I encounter any serious problems. One more little question, as for that back drive, if I made it during the XP installation like you said, can Win98Se put back up files on to it as well?

Thanks again ^^



Jase Sen

pjg54
30-09-2003, 10:44 AM
the key to this is the order in which you put the operating systems on your machine. You should install from oldest to newest, so win98 comes first then win2000, then winxp etc... I have found that using fdisk it is very easy to create your 3 partitions first and then install your OS. You don't have two primary partitions because in a multiboot boot system there is a file on the primary partition that tells it where the files are.
Good luck

pjg54
30-09-2003, 10:47 AM
win98 can only put files to that partition if it is formatted in fat16 or fat32.
If you have used winXP and formatted it into NTFS then win98 will not be able to see it.

Barnabas
30-09-2003, 11:16 AM
Exactly right, use fat32 if you want to make your backup drive accessible from both operating systems. Use NTFS for Xp and Fat32 for Win98.

Chilling_Silently
30-09-2003, 11:29 AM
I would still debate using FAT32 for the XP Partition also, as it makes life much easier if you're in Win98 and want to get access to a file on the XP Partition.

You're not going to want to do 2x reboots just to get a file off the XP Partition.

Sure, there are reader's out there, but iirc they usually cost :-(

PoWa
30-09-2003, 01:03 PM
I believe you have to have XP on the first primary boot partition, or it won't boot. And yea install 98 first on a partition later down the disk.

Chilling_Silently
30-09-2003, 01:53 PM
Err... You can put XP ANYwhere.. even on a secondary HDD.. Its 98 I'd be more concerned about, and put that on the primary... :-)

Jase1
30-09-2003, 02:09 PM
This is what I've planed:

Win98Se - Primary Partitioin - FAT32
WinXPPro - Extended Partition??? - FAT32
Back Drive - What should this one be? - FAT32

And this is what I've done till now:

Win98Se - Primary Partition - FAT32 -------DONE :)
WinXPPro - NOT YET DONE - NOT YET DONE -------CANNOT FIND CD :(
Back Drive - NO IDEA YET - NOT YET DONE ------- WAITING FOR XP :_|


Damn! Where's my XP cd ?:|

If I did what Barnabas said, create the back drive during the installation of XP, would it be easier than doing it in FDISK?


Thanks



Jase Sen

Chilling_Silently
30-09-2003, 02:33 PM
Make your backup drive a FAT32 partition in the extended partition area (Logical drive).

Try booting from the CD rather than off a floppy.

If you do boot from a floppy, then it will be a drive above what it is in doze, so if it's normally D: then when booting from a floppy, it'll be E:

Make the Backup partition once you've installed WinXP.

Cheers


Chill.

Merlin
30-09-2003, 04:57 PM
Contrary to common guesswork, it is possible to create up to 4 primary partitions on a single physical hard drive.

In simplistic terms, an extended partition is a specialised primary partition. Extended partitions are non bootable as are logical drives.



DOS based Microsoft operating systems have limitations recognising more than one primary partition when more than one primary partition exists on a single hard drive. NT based Microsoft operating systems do not have that limitation.

After partition formatting, DOS based Microsoft operating systems have limitations recognising non FAT file structures.




Microsoft Fdisk is a DOS based application.

To create more than one primary partition use either a non Microsoft application or use Disk Manager in an installed NT based Microsoft operating system.





Men are four:
He who knows not and knows not he knows not, he is a fool -- shun him;
He who knows not and knows he knows not, he is simple -- teach him;
He who knows and knows not he knows, he is asleep -- wake him;
He who knows and knows he knows, he is wise -- follow him!
- Lady Burton (wife of Sir Richard Francis Burton), given as an Arabian proverb

Terry Porritt
30-09-2003, 05:17 PM
Or... 3 primary partitions and an extended partition which may contain 'unlimited' logical partitions.

Software like Partition Magic will do this for you, and a boot manager like BootMagic can be used to select which partition to boot from, the others are then hidden.

Graham L
30-09-2003, 05:23 PM
And there are other OSs which can boot from extended partitions. You've always been able to make four primaries, it's just that only one can be "active" at any time in the DOS wqrld.

PoWa
30-09-2003, 05:46 PM
> You can put XP ANYwhere.. even on a secondary HDD.. Its 98 I'd be more concerned about, and put that on the primary...

Actually you can't. It has to be on the first partition of a disk - thats what MS recommend and if you do it another way it probably won't work. Also for linux to work with XP on the same disk you have to do that as well.

I also tried relocating the XP partition further down the disk, so I could put a swap file on the first part of the drive, but that just killed everything, and a repair wouldn't even fix. If you have XP on your 3rd partition or something and it runs, I'd like to see it in action :)

Chilling_Silently
30-09-2003, 10:46 PM
Powa>

Come on over then.. I've said before, I've run:
Win98SE, Win2K Pro, and WinXP Pro all off one HDD.. and I didnt use Partition Magic to create 4x Primary partitions like Merlin has mentioned (I still dont see why he doesnt get a proper sig).
He's right about the partitioning schematics though.

I installed Win98 first, then Win2K, and then WinXP :-)

And if you've got a good Boot Manager, you only need one partition to be active :-)

PoWa
30-09-2003, 11:03 PM
> I've run: Win98SE, Win2K Pro, and WinXP Pro all off one HDD

Ok but where is winxp located on the disk? start or end?

> (I still dont see why he doesnt get a proper sig).

LOL. Yer it is rather lame.

Chilling_Silently
30-09-2003, 11:09 PM
There were 3x 3GB partitions and 1x 1.2GB partition on a 10.2 GB disk.

It went:
Primary partition:
98
then in the first Logical:
Win2K Pro
Seecond logical:
WinXP Pro
3rd Logical:
FAT32 misc files drive

All were FAT32 partitions :-)

PoWa
01-10-2003, 02:56 AM
Mmmm good stuff. :) If it worked for you, excellent. Although I woulda though putting the better OS (XP) on the first partition would be for optimal performance. Although if hes gonna be using '98 a lot for games etc then put that as first. Goodness we are getting pedantic now, I think I'll shutup ;) :)

Jase1
02-10-2003, 01:01 PM
Hey ^^

Umm...I think I may have a problem. I've manage to setup (not yet created) a partition for XP during the XP setup. But I can't seem to get it to format into FAT32. It only allows me to format it to NTFS... :( . The size of HDD that I've set for Xp is 50GB. I've also created another partition (the backup drive), and this one can let me choose if I want to format it into FAT32 or NTFS. The partition that I've set for the backup drive is 5GB.

Any ideas on how I can conver it into FAT32? Is it because the size of the HDD is over 40GB that it has to format it into NTFS?


Thanks



Jase Sen

PoWa
02-10-2003, 01:11 PM
Dude, a 50Gb size for xp! Have a search of the forum for more intuitive partitioning methods!!

tommy
02-10-2003, 02:00 PM
> Any ideas on how I can conver it into FAT32? Is it because the size of the HDD is over 40GB that it has to format it into NTFS?

Correct. Win XP can only make FAT partitions if they are under 32GB in size.

Jase1
02-10-2003, 02:54 PM
If I format the 50GB drive in FDISK now, would it convert it into FAT32?


Thanks



Jase Sen

PoWa
02-10-2003, 03:30 PM
This is how I have mine set up, and it works extremely well. You will have to decide which format to use on each partion (fat32,ntfs). I would suggest if you want the data to be accessible from win98, make the E: data partition fat32.

Partitions should be laid out in this order maybe. Note the windows/swap and programs are at the start of the disk for quicker access.

1) 512mb-1Gb partition for windows swap file. (label Z: )
2) 3Gb primary partition for Windows only. (label C: )
3) XXGb logical partition for programs etc. (label D: ) (install everything to this)
4) Remainder XXGb logical partition for random stuff. (label E: )

So you install everything you want, and set everything up just how you like it. Then you use DriveImage or ghost to create a copy of only the C: partition. You would store the image on the E: partition. Then if windows dies, just use the ghost image to copy C: again.

Advantages, you won't have to reinstall hardly -any- programs because all the info is in the registry, and that gets re-copied in with the image.

Jase1
02-10-2003, 07:07 PM
To PoWa
Thanks for the suggestion, but I've already gone a little bit further than that. I've manage to get everything running(create the partitions, installed of an earler OS), problems is, WinXP is in NTFS format and I want to it in FAT32, so Win98 can see it. The back up drive is also complete(its in FAT32). So basically I've done everything, except WinXp is in NTFS now and I really want it to convert/format it into FAT32 so Win98 can see it.

Thanks



Jase Sen

Chilling_Silently
02-10-2003, 07:13 PM
You can really only do that with the Win98 Boot Disk, or Partition Magic.

As mentioned, XP will only create FAT32 partitions that are under 32GB.

It will however install onto ones made by the boot disk that are over.

The only way to convert from NTFS to FAT32 is to use Partition Magic, so its either that or format that partition if you've installed WinXP.

If you've made the partition, boot off the boot disk, and IIRC, you can simply go:
format X:
Where "X:" is the drive letter (Check it first that its not one of the other drives you want kept). That should format it as FAT32 and leave the rest alone.

Hope this helps


Chill.

Jase1
02-10-2003, 11:48 PM
Since I've installed Win98Se on the Primary partition, and when I've installed WinXp it created another partition, an Extended partition. Now I can't seem to be able to FORMAT this Extended partition in FDISK. I've also create a logical partition to it as well. I can format the Primary partition and the logical partition but I can't seem to get it to format the Extended partition. I know that it may/suppose to have a Drive letter beside the Extended partition but there is none on my one :( .

Does anyone know where I could download Partition magic from? It's a shareware isn't it?


I just wanna thanks eveyone for their time and help ^^



Jase Sen

Terry Porritt
03-10-2003, 07:47 AM
You cant format an extended partition, only the logical partitions within that extended partition. If the logical partitions dont fully occupy an extended partition then there is free space left over.

I bought my Partition Magic originally from Quay Computers, but subsequent updates and Drive Copy from http://tech-matters.co.nz but there are other suppliers if you do a bit of a search.

Susan B
03-10-2003, 10:30 AM
> Since I've installed Win98Se on the Primary
> partition, and when I've installed WinXp it created
> another partition, an Extended partition. Now I can't
> seem to be able to FORMAT this Extended partition in
> FDISK.

Why don't you try and format the partition from within Win XP's Disk Management? Or have I missed something.....?


> I've also create a logical partition to it as
> well. I can format the Primary partition and the
> logical partition but I can't seem to get it to
> format the Extended partition. I know that it
> may/suppose to have a Drive letter beside the
> Extended partition but there is none on my one :( .

Can't advise there.


> Does anyone know where I could download Partition
> magic from? It's a shareware isn't it?

No, Partition Magic is not shareware and it is not cheap.


My suggestion is to wipe everything, start all over again and do it properly. I know it is a huge hassle because I have been down exactly the same path but believe me, having it all set up properly in the first place is worth the time and effort in the long run.

Some time spent using Google and reading some of the vast amounts of information available on this topic will also help. To start you off there is a good partitioning FAQ on the forum that may be useful to you (link top right of this page - and be patient, the FAQs take a while to load).

Jase1
03-10-2003, 01:11 PM
Thanks Susan B
Well, all I can say I pretty damn annoyed with this partitioning X-( . Like you said "...having it all set up properly in the first place is worth the time and effort in the long run." so I'm gonna keep on trying, something. And yep, I'm wiping everything out and starting all over again. I have had a look at the post in the FAQ, I did that before I started this whole partition thing. I guess for this to come out successful I would need to read EVERYTHING. Oh yeah, I've also tried that partitioning thing within XP, though it sort of stuff up somewhere after the installation, probably is because of my previous partitions in FDISK. For now I'll think I'll just use FDISK and stick to it. And now I'll think I'll rest ^^ . Spent the whole day formating, reinstalling XP, partitioning.....very tiring :( .


Well, I'll just wanna thanks everyone again for their suggestions and ideas. Very grateful ^^.



Jase Sen

Susan B
03-10-2003, 05:12 PM
> Well, all I can say I pretty damn annoyed with this partitioning

Yes, I bet you are! It took me four goes to do it myself so I know how you feel. :8}

My system is currently dual booting with Red Hat rather than two versions of Windows so I did not need to use FDISK with Win XP but when I partitioned the other computer, which is running Win 98 I found this site (http://fdisk.radified.com/) to be very good at explaining it all. It is well worth reading.

I take it that you also read the forum's FAQ #2 Multi-booting a Windows System? Just remember that to format in FAT32 Win XP needs partitions smaller than 32GB as was mentioned previously.

Merlin
03-10-2003, 07:18 PM
Microsoft Fdisk is a DOS based application and as such will only create ONE primary partition plus ONE extended partition which can contain an unlimited number of logical drives; of which only a maximum of 23 will be recognised on a computer with ONE physical hard drive, ONE floppy drive and NO cd drive.
Refer here - http://phoenix.liunet.edu/~mdevi/win32/LogicalVolumes.htm


Microsoft Fdisk is version specific (DOS, Windows 9x, etc) and each version has its own limitations regarding maximum hard drive partition size and format file structure.
Refer here - http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/3254/refpartn.html


XP and 2000 create primary partitions by default and any formatting is NTFS by default. NT based Microsoft operating systems recognise multiple primary partitions on the same hard drive. FAT partitions are formatted FAT32 by default unless the partition is under 512Mb.
MS info here - http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=313348


To create more than one primary partition use either a non Microsoft application or use Disk Manager in an installed NT based Microsoft operating system.





Men are four:
He who knows not and knows not he knows not, he is a fool -- shun him;
He who knows not and knows he knows not, he is simple -- teach him;
He who knows and knows not he knows, he is asleep -- wake him;
He who knows and knows he knows, he is wise -- follow him!
- Lady Burton (wife of Sir Richard Francis Burton), given as an Arabian proverb

Merlin
03-10-2003, 07:28 PM
Formatted better

Microsoft Fdisk is a DOS based application and as such will only create ONE primary partition plus ONE extended partition which can contain an unlimited number of logical drives; of which only a maximum of 23 will be recognised on a computer with ONE physical hard drive, ONE floppy drive and NO cd drive.
Refer here - phoenix.liunet.edu/~mdevi/win32/LogicalVolumes.htm (http://phoenix.liunet.edu/~mdevi/win32/LogicalVolumes.htm)


Microsoft Fdisk is version specific (DOS, Windows 9x, etc) and each version has its own limitations regarding maximum hard drive partition size and format file structure.
Refer here - www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/3254/refpartn.html (http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/3254/refpartn.html)


XP and 2000 create primary partitions by default and any formatting is NTFS by default. NT based Microsoft operating systems recognise multiple primary partitions on the same hard drive. FAT partitions are formatted FAT32 by default unless the partition is under 512Mb.
MS info here - support.microsoft.com/?kbid=313348 (http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=313348)



To create more than one primary partition use either a non Microsoft application or use Disk Manager in an installed NT based Microsoft operating system.





Men are four:
He who knows not and knows not he knows not, he is a fool -- shun him;
He who knows not and knows he knows not, he is simple -- teach him;
He who knows and knows not he knows, he is asleep -- wake him;
He who knows and knows he knows, he is wise -- follow him!
- Lady Burton (wife of Sir Richard Francis Burton), given as an Arabian proverb