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View Full Version : GPS ankle bracelets for sex offenders..........don't make me laugh!



Billy T
27-06-2012, 05:59 PM
In the News: Where do they get these ideas from? The GPS may track the wearer to a house, but will lose them while inside, especially if the roof is corrugated iron, and probably under tiles as well, which may have significant mineral content. I reckon most GPS systems would probably lose signal inside a house with any type of roof other than thatch!

Once inside, a quick ankle-wrap with kitchen foil and the GPS can't see or be seen, so the wearer can leave and go wherever he or she fancies. If they go back home, take the foil off and go outside they will be confirmed as still being at the same premises. I doubt that they will have inertial navigation recording facilities to track those covert movements so it sounds like a pointless waste of time to me.

I could be wrong though, and I hope I am!

Cheers

Billy 8-{) :stare:

mikebartnz
27-06-2012, 06:12 PM
Sounds logical to me.
Reminds me of a while ago where they were talking about GPS tied to the vehicle speed and I wonder what happens when you go under a bridge or through a tunnel.

Bobh
27-06-2012, 06:18 PM
They must use the same satellite or similar that a car GPS uses. I know that if I take my GPS out of the car and try to use it inside (I do have a corrugated roof) it will not work as it cannot receive a signal.

Nick G
27-06-2012, 06:18 PM
That's the government for you ;)

pcuser42
27-06-2012, 07:00 PM
My phone is able to find my location indoors by using the cell towers and WiFi networks (if WiFi is turned on), so it can be done ;)

inphinity
27-06-2012, 07:02 PM
Unless of course it's also using cell towers and wifi for location information - which is likely, given it's meant to be feeding the data back somehow - and suddenly you at least have approximation data, even if it is +/- 100m instead of +/- 5m.

WalOne
27-06-2012, 07:03 PM
My phone is able to find my location indoors by using the cell towers and WiFi networks (if WiFi is turned on), so it can be done ;)

And in tunnels? :p

inphinity
27-06-2012, 07:14 PM
And in tunnels? :p

Simply have it trigger an alert if it's out of signal for > 5minutes or something.

mikebartnz
27-06-2012, 07:16 PM
My phone is able to find my location indoors by using the cell towers and WiFi networks (if WiFi is turned on), so it can be done ;)
It can be done but it wouldn't be good enough for the purpose of tracking an ankle bracelet.
In a multi story building how do you know what floor the person is on.

pcuser42
27-06-2012, 07:49 PM
And in tunnels? :p

Then you're screwed. :p

Gobe1
27-06-2012, 08:11 PM
Then you're screwed. :p

Pun intended....

pcuser42
27-06-2012, 08:47 PM
Pun intended....

I didn't see that :lol:

gary67
27-06-2012, 09:00 PM
My hand held Garmin eTrexH works in my house, the H version was developed to work in dense bush cover and works indoors too quite well unless I'm right in the middle of the house. If i'm within 2m of the walls or windows it works

Billy T
27-06-2012, 09:40 PM
Unless of course it's also using cell towers and wifi for location information - which is likely, given it's meant to be feeding the data back somehow - and suddenly you at least have approximation data, even if it is +/- 100m instead of +/- 5m.

It couldn't use the normal cellular system, or wi-fi, the batteries would need regular charging and guess who would forget, or lose the charger: sorry Officer, my dog ate it / the kids stole it / what charger? / I didn't know what it was so I sold it on Trade Me / it fell in the toilet/down the long drop...........the excuses would be endless.

It most likely would rely on satellite for GPS location, and micro-bursts of data initiated by the interrogating device for reporting, but it would still be easy to block that system. If I had an evil mind, I'd test the system out by going off-line for periods of time then acting inoccent when the Feds turned up. I'd always be where I was supposed to be, and in the end they'd ignore the signal loss or turn up only once in every so many incidents.

In the meantime, parents and kids beware of shifty looking characters of indeterminate racial origins and ambiguous sexual characteristics with one bulky ankle that reflects sunlight into your eyes.

Cheers

Billy 8-{)

plod
27-06-2012, 09:48 PM
If these are anything like the normal ankle bracelets used, then inside the house there will be a transmitter hooked up to the phone line. If bracelet is tampered with or gets out of range from transmitter it phones home to armour guard or whoever is monitoring it. No, not from first hand experience, but close :)

Billy T
27-06-2012, 09:57 PM
If these are anything like the normal ankle bracelets used, then inside the house there will be a transmitter hooked up to the phone line. If bracelet is tampered with or gets out of range from transmitter it phones home to armour guard or whoever is monitoring it. No, not from first hand experience, but close :)

Even easier for a smart crook to confound: take it off-line for a while then be in the front yard gardening when the cavalry arrive. Next time be in bed, then the shower, then watching TV etc.

Bear in mind that the mooted system/device is meant to track the wearer's movements when away from their residence. They are not under home detention, they are under movement / location surveillance.

Cheers

Billy 8-{)

plod
27-06-2012, 10:10 PM
Even easier for a smart crook to confound: take it off-line for a while then be in the front yard gardening when the cavalry arrive. Next time be in bed, then the shower, then watching TV etc.

Bear in mind that the mooted system/device is meant to track the wearer's movements when away from their residence. They are not under home detention, they are under movement / location surveillance.

Cheers

Billy 8-{)Doesn't work like that billy, you take it off line playing silly buggers, your bail or sentence will be revoked into the big house. So sounds like the new proposed is different to current system. Maybe the bracelet should be fitted with a taser, so when you go somewhere where ya not meant to be cazinga

The Error Guy
28-06-2012, 09:12 AM
a GPS unit is a reciever, i'm guessing it will use GSM/GPRS or other data networks to send/recieve data. That network will most likely be auxiliary to the GPS info which used in collaboration with other systems on the bracelet will be able to detect any anomalies in tracking data and tampering. ;)

Perhaps they will be allowed to make calls, send texts, browse the web and use navigation on the road? knowing NZ's "special" treatment of our criminals that sounds feasible.

I doubt corrections will release any info on these things in the name of security but I doubt it will rely solely on GPS.

pctek
28-06-2012, 10:43 AM
beware of shifty looking characters of indeterminate racial origins
What, people of obvious racial origins don't commit crimes?

Husbands GPS works indoors.

dugimodo
28-06-2012, 11:05 AM
However well it works it's better than nothing, At least if there was a signal it could be used to establish where someone was and if there was no signal when an offence occured that would be an extra layer of suspicion. If something happened in an area police could theoretically look up where all the known gps equipped offenders were at the time and whether any were out of coverage and narrow down the suspects. Also it could pick up dodgy behavour before it became an issue, does that offender walk past a school every day to go to the dairy and slow down as they do?

Used correctly I think it could be useful, but obviously not 100% reliable.

Peter H
28-06-2012, 11:42 AM
Go to ElmoTech - read all about it, instead of guessing.

Zippity
28-06-2012, 12:22 PM
Surely if it works in the movies, then it will work in real life! No??

mikebartnz
28-06-2012, 12:26 PM
Surely if it works in the movies, then it will work in real life! No??
:thumbs::thumbs:

Iantech
28-06-2012, 12:43 PM
Maybe neck bracelets that explode when they get into or outside a certain area - or near certain other people or if 2 bracelets came to close to each other (meaning crims could not associate with each other) - might be more effective.

mzee
28-06-2012, 01:58 PM
The chips could be surgically inserted to avoid tampering.
Bracelets could be round their b***s very tight!
How about the chip giving them an electric shock if they go outside a prescribed area?
We can afford to put chips in Dogs, so why not criminals?

johcar
28-06-2012, 02:56 PM
Even easier for a smart crook to confound: take it off-line for a while then be in the front yard gardening when the cavalry arrive. Next time be in bed, then the shower, then watching TV etc.

Bear in mind that the mooted system/device is meant to track the wearer's movements when away from their residence. They are not under home detention, they are under movement / location surveillance.

Cheers

Billy 8-{)


See, there's where your theory falls down, Billy. There's damn few of these. If they were smart, they wouldn't have been caught in the first place :D



<snip>
Husbands GPS works indoors.

He needs his GPS inside to help him access drive through ATMs? :lol:

(See Monday Laughs for the week)

Billy T
28-06-2012, 05:01 PM
Loss of signal through device shielding leaves no evidence as to the reason why, or the means employed. I'd be very surprised if these bracelets were interrogated 24-7 as that would require a lot of technology, so random dropouts of varying duration would be put down to local conditions. Remember that these units are intended to allow the wearer to go out and about, and would only raise an alert if the wearer was in a location commensurate with their offending profile.

In WWII the Germans were slowly convinced that their electronic jamming transmissions against British radar and other tracking or navigational systems were totally ineffective by the simple expedient of the Brits continuing to transmit normally, whereupon the Germans finally decided it was pointless because quite obviously 'the enemy' had developed effective filtering or similar such countermeasures, so they just turned off their jammers.

If the offender was always home and the gear apparently working normally when the Police called, despite the intermittent loss of signals, it would not be long before they stopped responding. The offender would then know their response pattern and could leave the site unmonitored during periods when he/she knew that a check up was unlikely. Certain types of offenders are nothing if not patient.

Cheers

Billy 8-{)