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View Full Version : Is it illegal to record voice conversations in new zealand without consent?



Question
28-08-2011, 12:40 AM
As title, if you record a voice conversation without consent from all parties, is it illegal?

Snorkbox
28-08-2011, 02:08 AM
Yes.

But there may be exceptions such as wire tapping phones etc where you have permissions granted by a Court of law.

Gobe1
28-08-2011, 08:10 AM
Yes as snork said. I had this conversation with our phone supplier about 6 months ago.
There must be at least 1 person in the conversation who has knowledge of the recording.

SurferJoe46
28-08-2011, 08:15 AM
See if this works for youse guys:::

In the US - most phone services or call centers state: "This conversation may be recorded for quality control purposes".

If they say that, then you have an automatic right to record on your end too.

coldot
28-08-2011, 08:45 AM
No, essentially it is not illegal.
BUT - the parties must be made aware of the recording being made before recording commences. That's why so many customer service responses have a prerecorded warning before you are connected to the live person. You can hang up if you object, but I doubt that you could stay on the line and make them stop recording. It's all or nothing and likely not controlled by the operator.
It would be illegal if the company hadn't warned the operator that they could be recorded on calls.

coldot
28-08-2011, 08:47 AM
No, essentially it is not illegal.
BUT - the parties must be made aware of the recording being made before recording commences. That's why so many customer service responses have a prerecorded warning before you are connected to the live person. You can hang up if you object, but I doubt that you could stay on the line and make them stop recording. It's all or nothing and likely not controlled by the operator.
"Consent" is the tricky bit. You consent by continuing the conversation.
It would be illegal if the company hadn't warned the operator that they could be recorded on calls.

Greg
28-08-2011, 08:48 AM
As title, if you record a voice conversation without consent from all parties, is it illegal?
To the best of my knowledge, you don't require consent - but you have to advise the other party that the recording is happening, or may happen. They then can simply hang up the phone if they don't want to be recorded.

prefect
28-08-2011, 09:15 AM
I record the calls I make to companies chasing up late payment. I put the mobile on speaker phone and record with another old cell phone to a SD card.
Many times I have played it back to them when they have changed their story.
If it is illegal I dont care not paying accounts is illegal as well.

Bobh
28-08-2011, 09:46 AM
Quite often when someone rings up to conduct a survey you will be told that the conversation is being recorded for training purposes.

Pushy sales people are known to record their phone conversation with you. When you finally get persuaded to buy their product they can use it as a copy of a verbal contract with you. I would bet that they would not use the initial lead up to the conversation where they use their sales hype to get you to agree to buy their product.

wainuitech
28-08-2011, 09:54 AM
but I doubt that you could stay on the line and make them stop recording. It's all or nothing and likely not controlled by the operator. There are a few places, after they have given the automatic message "the conversation may be recorded" that do say something along the lines of "if you do not wish to be recorded please advise the operator"

I actually had one person as prefect pointed out, wouldn't pay an invoice, I warned him the conversation was being recorded since he always claimed he "never said that" -- Well --- he really let rip with the fowl language saying what he thought of the recording and what I could do with it :eek:, and called my bluff about taking to a debt collection company, and still refused to pay the invoice

Stayed claim, and he really dug his own grave :lol:

Loved to have seen the faces at Baycorp when they got that recording a few weeks later.

SP8's
28-08-2011, 10:19 AM
Have a read through the relevant sections ....

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1993/0028/latest/DLM296639.html

Bobh
28-08-2011, 10:34 AM
This might sum things up. I thought that it might have come under the Telecommications Act.


(1) There are legal considerations relating to the use of listening devices designed to record telephone conversations. Section 216 of the Crimes Act 1962 (which includes a definition of such devices) makes it an offence to intentionally intercept a private communication by means of a listening device unless one of the permitted exceptions applies. One of these is that at least one party to the conversation must be aware that the conversation is being recorded.

* This clause does not relate to a simple answering machine or voice messaging system which records a message from a caller and is not capable of recording a both-way conversation. The caller is normally aware that the message is being recorded and makes a definite decision to proceed.

(2) The Privacy Act 1993 contains additional constraints on the use of recording devices. Use of a recording device to record a telephone conversation is deemed to be "collection of personal information" under this Act. Generally speaking, the Act requires that such "collection" shall only be carried out with the permission of the person concerned. The Privacy Act also requires that the information be obtained from the individual concerned, and sets strict conditions as to what information is being collected, what it is to be used for, and to whom it may be disclosed.

http://www.telepermit.co.nz/PTC200X10.html

SurferJoe46
28-08-2011, 10:36 AM
This reads all sorts of ways:::


Generally speaking, the Act requires that such "collection" shall only be carried out with the permission of the person concerned. The Privacy Act also requires that the information be obtained from the individual concerned, and sets strict conditions as to what information is being collected, what it is to be used for, and to whom it may be disclosed.

If I am concerned and I am the one recording the call - then I see that as a slam dunk and legal.

I cannot be- and choose NOT to be- concerned about the other party if they are the ones who called me.

See?

Wot?

mikebartnz
28-08-2011, 10:55 AM
It is only illegal if you get caught.:devil:devil

WalOne
28-08-2011, 11:49 AM
he really let rip with the fowl language

What, did he want to chicken out?

;)

wainuitech
28-08-2011, 01:47 PM
Ok wrong foul :p

He could have simply hung up ans not been recorded, But I politely told him I was recording the conversation as in the past he was saying "he never said that, or "I never said that" and that advisement was also recorded as part of it, and I wasn't bluffing.


The conversation got sent to baycorp ---- I would say they were "amused" Esp in the end he said and I do hope you are ****in recording this and do send it, they dont have the balls to do anything anyway.

Gobe1
28-08-2011, 02:07 PM
All new VOIP systems have a record button. Allows you to record a conversation you may use later as some others on here have required to :)

Question
28-08-2011, 02:20 PM
Uh i meant a face to face conversation, not over the phone. I have a meeting with my residential manager on monday and i suspect shes trying to screw me over, so i want to record it as proof in case anything happens.

Gobe1
28-08-2011, 03:20 PM
Yep go for it. You dont need to let them know as you are the person who knows it is being recorded

Renmoo
28-08-2011, 03:28 PM
Uh i meant a face to face conversation, not over the phone. I have a meeting with my residential manager on monday and i suspect shes trying to screw me over, so i want to record it as proof in case anything happens.
Don't agree to anything that she says unless she can produce something black-and-white to back up the terms that she is promising you. Verbal recording can somewhat help with the situation, but having something paperback is still best.

What sort of "meeting" is it, out of curiosity?

Question
28-08-2011, 04:06 PM
I'm not really sure. Some background on this...

One of my flatmates had some complaints about noise levels(walls are really thin, we can hear very clearly when someone is talking next door). Instead of talking it over with the rest of the flat, she decided the best course of action would be to immediately file complaints with management. I missed the initial meeting with the manager and she basically sent me emails demanding i see her on monday or she will kick me off the premises. The girl who filed the complaint has also conveniently gone on a 3 week holiday.

I have no idea why management is getting involved because we can easily solve this among ourselves. Ive only met this manager once before and that involved her being rude, offensive and interrupting me multiple times mid sentence. I dont expect this meeting to be any different really.

coldot
28-08-2011, 04:48 PM
Above all, keep your cool! Don't let yourself get into a slanging match. It's very hard for one person to have an argument if the other one is responding quietly, politely, even timidly - and speaking only the truth.
I'm inclined towards - don't record it - if the other person sees your mic or hears your recorder bleep then the resulting fireworks could ruin your case.

plod
28-08-2011, 04:53 PM
I'm not really sure. Some background on this...

One of my flatmates had some complaints about noise levels(walls are really thin, we can hear very clearly when someone is talking next door). Instead of talking it over with the rest of the flat, she decided the best course of action would be to immediately file complaints with management. I missed the initial meeting with the manager and she basically sent me emails demanding i see her on monday or she will kick me off the premises. The girl who filed the complaint has also conveniently gone on a 3 week holiday.

I have no idea why management is getting involved because we can easily solve this among ourselves. Ive only met this manager once before and that involved her being rude, offensive and interrupting me multiple times mid sentence. I dont expect this meeting to be any different really.

The alternative could be to take someone with you.

Question
28-08-2011, 05:08 PM
I dont think i can find anyone willing to go and hear something like this.

Good point about the sound...im planning to use my phone's voice recorder, and when you start it, theres a distinct beep. I cant find any option to turn it off, so i would probably need to turn it on before i walk through the door...

Question
28-08-2011, 05:57 PM
Doesnt seem to be an edit button, thats odd.

Just tested the voice recording after i put it in my jacket pocket. I can hear my voice, but its kind of muffled...may not be able to catch the conversation that well.

prefect
28-08-2011, 06:01 PM
Doesnt seem to be an edit button, thats odd.

Just tested the voice recording after i put it in my jacket pocket. I can hear my voice, but its kind of muffled...may not be able to catch the conversation that well.
Hold it in your hand

Question
28-08-2011, 06:11 PM
Well it would be kind of obvious if i held it in my hand wouldnt it....

pine-o-cleen
28-08-2011, 06:22 PM
Why? It's a cellphone, many people hold their cellphones in their hands. It's perfectly normal.

If you saw someone with a cellphone in their hand would you assume they were recording a conversation?

Question
28-08-2011, 06:25 PM
If there was no reason to hold the cellphone in their hand, yes.

I have never seen someone sit and talk while holding the cellphone in their hand. People just stuff it into their jeans pocket usually. Or put it on the table if they have no pockets or bag.

paulw
28-08-2011, 06:46 PM
As title, if you record a voice conversation without consent from all parties, is it illegal?

It's legal as long as one party agrees. That is usually the person doing the recording hence the reason when your fone call to a CC does not have mandatory 30 beep tone across it as they do in Ozz.

Renmoo
28-08-2011, 08:24 PM
I'm not really sure. Some background on this...

One of my flatmates had some complaints about noise levels(walls are really thin, we can hear very clearly when someone is talking next door). Instead of talking it over with the rest of the flat, she decided the best course of action would be to immediately file complaints with management. I missed the initial meeting with the manager and she basically sent me emails demanding i see her on monday or she will kick me off the premises. The girl who filed the complaint has also conveniently gone on a 3 week holiday.

I have no idea why management is getting involved because we can easily solve this among ourselves. Ive only met this manager once before and that involved her being rude, offensive and interrupting me multiple times mid sentence. I dont expect this meeting to be any different really.
Best to start hunting for a new place now in case the manager makes the meeting outcome a total mess and difficult for you.

prefect
28-08-2011, 08:52 PM
If there was no reason to hold the cellphone in their hand, yes.

I have never seen someone sit and talk while holding the cellphone in their hand. People just stuff it into their jeans pocket usually. Or put it on the table if they have no pockets or bag.
I beg to differ I hold mine in my hand alot. Its part of me.

Question
28-08-2011, 11:43 PM
Why not just put it into your pocket? Holding it in your hand is a constant risk of dropping or bumping it.

Agent_24
29-08-2011, 12:53 AM
Not sure how you can solve the phone problem, unless you can attach an external mic or something, or hold it in your hand without looking suspicious...

I get a bit annoyed when I call some company, and they say they may record the conversation for training purposes... you pretty much _have_ to get potentially recorded if you want to actually talk to someone. I think next time that happens I'll tell them I'm recording it as well for nefarious purposes.

Question
29-08-2011, 10:36 PM
Managed to record it. Voices are kind of soft, but i can hear them clearly at max volume.

Nothing particularly juicy on it though. Was about 15 mins of the manager repeatedly accusing me of some very strange things, most of which i had never heard of before (hair in the bathroom? wtf?) and watching my reactions. Was a complete waste of the time and bus fare as i expected.

Agent_24
29-08-2011, 10:54 PM
As long as you're not kicked out I guess that's something

Question
29-08-2011, 11:21 PM
Well there's that. I'm only going to be here for a few more months anyway (halfway through the semester).

Downside is that she apparently told my flatmates some stuff, and now they think i've been causing trouble since the first semester. Good job on the slandering there...

SurferJoe46
30-08-2011, 02:02 AM
Managed to record it. Voices are kind of soft, but i can hear them clearly at max volume.

Nothing particularly juicy on it though. Was about 15 mins of the manager repeatedly accusing me of some very strange things, most of which i had never heard of before (hair in the bathroom? wtf?) and watching my reactions. Was a complete waste of the time and bus fare as i expected.

Run it through Audacity (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&sqi=2&ved=0CDYQjBAwAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Faudacity.sourceforge.net%2Fdownlo ad%2F&rct=j&q=audacity&ei=iptbTsvBItLYiALXr4CYCQ&usg=AFQjCNGBJLDm0KSgnOelF6BcW-B4HbTd0A&sig2=P4pxjlO8Ys87G7rlaLZyyg&cad=rja) and correct the volume and you'll have a fully audible recording.

Don't forget to download LAME (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CCUQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Flame.sourceforge.net%2F&rct=j&q=LAME&ei=3ZtbTpPyDszViAKkr8mqCQ&usg=AFQjCNHA3pZfKI5KFsGYTZDq3JqOE9D4zA&sig2=zx2LvJkaUUgW8G44nGjrrg&cad=rja) too, to convert it to MP3 format.

Question
30-08-2011, 02:59 AM
Not much point, nothing juicy on the recording.