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Metla
02-09-2010, 06:52 PM
A drunk-driver with 17 previous convictions for disqualified driving has been jailed for four years after he killed a Northland mother-of-one on his 18th offense.



Chronic alcoholic Warren John Jenkins, 49, fought his partner for his car keys before the crash that killed Katherine Kennedy, 46, on State Highway 2 outside Kerikeri in March.


He had only been out of jail for 10 days - where he had served a three month sentence for his 16th drink driving conviction Kennedy was survived by a five-year-old son, Matthew, who is being brought up by his uncle, Matthew Kennedy.

prefect
02-09-2010, 06:58 PM
It sure makes me spew. He should have been in preventative detention since the fourth offence.
Sure as **** he was going to kill someone it was going to happen like night following day.

ryanjames.powell
02-09-2010, 09:37 PM
Should have got a LOT more than four years too. What were they thinking?

rob_on_guitar
02-09-2010, 09:51 PM
Gouge eyes out. End of problem and a sentence that lasts.

Strommer
02-09-2010, 10:17 PM
Sickening yes. :annoyed: The judge who gave him 4 years should be thrown out.

Same sort of s**t is happening over in Oz. (http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/judge-says-killing-of-buddhist-monk-buu-lieu-unprovoked-and-merciless/story-e6frg13u-1225912859041)

Meanwhile a twisted guy somewhere in the Middle East rapes a young woman and she gets death by stoning.

Its a crazy world. :waughh:

Paul.Cov
03-09-2010, 08:23 AM
Death sentence please. This guy is clearly not going to reform - so we either lock him up forever, or be rid of the swine. :groan:

There should also perhaps be laws allowing us to permanently brand this type of character a hazard, and that any supply of alcohol, or use of a vehicle be illegal.

Tattoo it across his face. "Repeat offender and killer. Not to have a vehicle or alcohol"

prefect
03-09-2010, 08:38 AM
Sickening yes. :annoyed: The judge who gave him 4 years should be thrown out.

Same sort of s**t is happening over in Oz. (http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/judge-says-killing-of-buddhist-monk-buu-lieu-unprovoked-and-merciless/story-e6frg13u-1225912859041)

Meanwhile a twisted guy somewhere in the Middle East rapes a young woman and she gets death by stoning.

Its a crazy world. :waughh:

Too true the judge needs to go. Cow judge is just so totally out of touch with reality. Aussie a bit different they are a super racist there judge does not probaly care one Asian killing another, well its my take on it.

John H
03-09-2010, 10:36 AM
Too true the judge needs to go. Cow judge is just so totally out of touch with reality. (snip)

I may be wrong, but I don't think it is the judge in these cases. It is the legislation and what the Police charge them with. The max penalty for the crimes the driver is charged with constrains the judge. As I said, I may be wrong, but I think that is the case, in which case your target should be your local lily livered MP.

Mind you, judging by the Nats recent performance over drink driving legislation etc, I suspect you should not hold your breath hoping for change from that quarter. It needs some political party to stand up to the booze industry, and that NEVER seems to happen, whatever colour the political party happens to be.

Presumably the booze industry has very deep pockets, and political parties have long arms.

Perhaps the Police need to get some lead in their pencil and charge these bastards with murder or manslaughter to try to get the message across.

John H
03-09-2010, 10:50 AM
Looks like this sort of driver is charged under S61 of the Land Transport Act 1998:

Person in charge of motor vehicle causing injury or death
(3) If a person is convicted of an offence against (this section)
(a) the maximum penalty is imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years or a fine not exceeding $20,000; and
(b) the court must order the person to be disqualified from holding or obtaining a driver licence for 1 year or more (etc).

Notice that there is no distinction in the section between causing injury or death, which seems bizarre to me. And the maximum penalty this judge could have imposed was 5 years jail.

Your target needs to be the pollies rather than the judges. Presumably the Police feel they would not get a conviction for murder or manslaughter under the present legislation.

How many times have you heard people say "it isn't a real crime, it is only a traffic offence", or words to that effect. Time we as a country got rid of that idea.

Battleneter2
03-09-2010, 01:11 PM
+1
17 previous convictions

IMO serious jail time should be handed down on the 3rd conviction for the same offence of drink driving, because he clearly never learned any lessons.

John H
03-09-2010, 01:23 PM
+1
17 previous convictions

IMO serious jail time should be handed down on the 3rd conviction for the same offence of drink driving, because he clearly never learned any lessons.

Under the Land Transport Act as it stands, the only extra thing that can occur for a 3rd conviction for the same offence of causing injury or death whilst driving under the influence, is that the judge's discretion about the length of disqualification is limited - the judge has no choice but to disqualify for MORE THAN 1 YEAR... Seriously.

That numbnuts Minister of Transport, Stephen Joyce, who got rolled over the drink driving debate by his mates in the Nat Cabinet, has just announced that there will be an increase in penalties coming soon. He is saying they will increase the maximum penalty for this offence to 10 years! Hardly a radical change - I suspect the mood of the country would be more towards changing the definition of homicide, murder, manslaughter (whatever) to include this kind of offence as unjustifiable homicide, and therefore make the max penalty life imprisonment, the same as murder/manslaughter.

prefect
03-09-2010, 02:02 PM
Under the Land Transport Act as it stands, the only extra thing that can occur for a 3rd conviction for the same offence of causing injury or death whilst driving under the influence, is that the judge's discretion about the length of disqualification is limited - the judge has no choice but to disqualify for MORE THAN 1 YEAR... Seriously.

That numbnuts Minister of Transport, Stephen Joyce, who got rolled over the drink driving debate by his mates in the Nat Cabinet, has just announced that there will be an increase in penalties coming soon. He is saying they will increase the maximum penalty for this offence to 10 years! Hardly a radical change - I suspect the mood of the country would be more towards changing the definition of homicide, murder, manslaughter (whatever) to include this kind of offence as unjustifiable homicide, and therefore make the max penalty life imprisonment, the same as murder/manslaughter.

Yeppers a new crime called vehicular homicide with 2 steps manslaughter and murder. Use same punishment as if it was done with a gun.
I feel for Joyce a party that cuts the drink driving piss amount will get a hiding at the elections because a lot of people like me still have a few snorters within the piss limit and drive.
If National had done the dirty and lowered the level I would never vote for them again.

kenj
03-09-2010, 02:36 PM
I feel for Joyce a party that cuts the drink driving piss amount will get a hiding at the elections because a lot of people like me still have a few snorters within the piss limit and drive.
If National had done the dirty and lowered the level I would never vote for them again.

Hey Prefect... That might have raised the average IQ of the rest of the National voters.

Ken :D

Arnie
03-09-2010, 03:21 PM
4 years still not the Maximum sentence, what does one have to do to get the maximum sentence?

John H
03-09-2010, 03:40 PM
4 years still not the Maximum sentence, what does one have to do to get the maximum sentence?

Probably by pleading not guilty and then getting convicted after forcing the Court into a trial. I am pretty sure that the report said that the Crown asked for a starting point of five years, but that the judge gave the usual discount for a guilty plea.

Someone will correct me if I am wrong - I can't find the report now.

PS here it is, c/o TVNZ news, which might mean it is crap:

Judge Emma Aitken said he presented one of the worst driving histories she had ever seen and his actions on that day constituted "close to the worst offending of its kind".

"It was an appalling, tragic and, I am bound to observe, avoidable course of conduct that led to the death of Ms Kennedy.

"There can be no dispute, Mr Jenkins, that the public needs protection from you."

She sentenced him to four years' imprisonment, taking into account his early guilty plea, but said she would have imposed a harsher sentence if the option had been available.

shermo
03-09-2010, 04:18 PM
Notice that there is no distinction in the section between causing injury or death, which seems bizarre to me.

I don't see the need for a distinction. If you crash into another car and you're drunk, it is only luck whether you kill them or simply injure them.

prefect
03-09-2010, 05:48 PM
Probably by pleading not guilty and then getting convicted after forcing the Court into a trial. I am pretty sure that the report said that the Crown asked for a starting point of five years, but that the judge gave the usual discount for a guilty plea.

Someone will correct me if I am wrong - I can't find the report now.

PS here it is, c/o TVNZ news, which might mean it is crap:

Judge Emma Aitken said he presented one of the worst driving histories she had ever seen and his actions on that day constituted "close to the worst offending of its kind".

"It was an appalling, tragic and, I am bound to observe, avoidable course of conduct that led to the death of Ms Kennedy.

"There can be no dispute, Mr Jenkins, that the public needs protection from you."

She sentenced him to four years' imprisonment, taking into account his early guilty plea, but said she would have imposed a harsher sentence if the option had been available.

Stupid stupid judge she should have sentenced the clown to the maximum knowing the crook would appeal it.
But then the appeal court can take the heat by reducing it.
Why are judges so stupid in NZ is it a requirement to being stupid to be appointed to the bench?

PPp
04-09-2010, 12:36 AM
Sorry Prefect judges are TIGHTLY constrained in NZ by the LAW and usually have very few options as to sentencing. They to had too many cowboys and had to be reigned in! So rail at the Law, not the judges.

KenESmith
04-09-2010, 03:07 AM
Surely a charge of manslaughter could have been laid - not entirely unknown in traffic cases. After all killing someone while driving under the influence must be culpable homicide. ( ie wilfully carrying out an unlawful act resulting in death)

Cicero
04-09-2010, 09:01 AM
Must say,they don't put much value on a human life.

Who is in charge here?

gary67
04-09-2010, 09:41 AM
About time the drink limit was set at zero for driving, no grey areas of can I can't I. But then you will get the bus drivers jumping up and down although it would give them more clients

prefect
04-09-2010, 09:51 AM
I wonder who you are having a dig at.

Twelvevolts
04-09-2010, 10:03 AM
Prefect is talking the usual nonsense about Judges who are constrained by the law. The Police for whatever reason chose not to lay manslaughter charges so more serious penalties were not available to the Judge.

Not sure why one would be sickened at the country as the country didn't do the crime, some idiot did.

Unfortunately there will always be idiots and this won't be the last tragedy that will hit the news.

Remedies like lowering the alcohol limit will achieve nothing in preventing people like this driving, they will only bring more people into the Criminal Justice system who have a one beer and go home.

Heavy penalties won't change it either, in fact as we saw in ChCh recently it just makes it more likely the idiots will try and out run the Police to escape. We all ready have life imprisonment as a penalty if the Police choose to lay a charge of manslaughter.

So for all you folk that want to start shooting people, we can be sure that approach in itself would cause injustices (people shot in error) and wouldn't actually prevent tragedies happening.

For those who want a criminal justice system like that, move to Iran and you can start having the joys of stoning people.

prefect
04-09-2010, 10:18 AM
I would prefer shooting people than stoning. Stoning a bit barbaric.

Cicero
04-09-2010, 10:26 AM
I would prefer shooting people than stoning. Stoning a bit barbaric.

These people have no respect forthe law,or anything else as far as I can see.

rob_on_guitar
04-09-2010, 11:31 AM
For those who want a criminal justice system like that, move to Iran and you can start having the joys of stoning people.

Or how about shipping the criminal who has had 17 previous convictions there?

Twelvevolts
04-09-2010, 12:29 PM
Or how about shipping the criminal who has had 17 previous convictions there?

You might find they wouldn't want them.

Cicero
04-09-2010, 02:05 PM
You might find they wouldn't want them.

It would me nice if you took them in,you could explain how it is all our fault.

Metla
04-09-2010, 03:21 PM
Not sure why one would be sickened at the country as the country didn't do the crime, some idiot did.
.

It is our justice system that has facilitated the killing of this innocent person by not taking appropriate action against the filth responsible.

17 convictions?

Every Judge he has gone before has blood on their hands, every single bleeding heart soft-cock has blood on their hands, Every person in the justice system has blood on their hands, and we the population of NZ let it happen again and again.

So yes, sometimes I am sickened by what we allow as a country.

Paul.Cov
04-09-2010, 04:59 PM
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/4094820/10-drivers-a-day-caught-drunk

The list at the bottom of the article is quite an eye opener.
It also gives the opportunity to study the various trends regarding offenders age, blood alcohol levels and occupations.
Of those 45 and over, the occupation 'driver' seems to appear too often! I have observed this before, where the more elderly citizens seem to think the law does not apply to themselves.

Also over represented is people in darned boring work... plasterers and gib stoppers. Perhaps the drinking is in response to a job that isn't very stimulating... or conversely, perhaps a job that requires less care also allows the workers more latitude regarding their being fit to work.

gary67
04-09-2010, 05:32 PM
A lot of blanks in that list are they all unemployed? Or are they just not putting occupation down

Paul.Cov
04-09-2010, 05:53 PM
Those will be the judges and lawyers that are blank. (opps, sarcasm muted now)

Yeah. I imagine the blanks are a mixture of unknowns and unemployeds, although I wouldn't be surprised if there is a bit of occupational protection going on among those figures as well.

Twelvevolts
05-09-2010, 12:04 PM
It is our justice system that has facilitated the killing of this innocent person by not taking appropriate action against the filth responsible.

17 convictions?

Every Judge he has gone before has blood on their hands, every single bleeding heart soft-cock has blood on their hands, Every person in the justice system has blood on their hands, and we the population of NZ let it happen again and again.

So yes, sometimes I am sickened by what we allow as a country.

Whether you like it or not you live in a country that is a liberal democracy and therefore gives its citizens rights and freedoms that the type of Government you appear to favour doesn't.

The down side of having freedom is you get people abusing it, although no system you choose to come up with will prevent tragedies happening, in fact if we became the sort of country you seem to want we can almost guarantee there would be more.

You generally appear to confuse the three branches of Government in New Zealand in pointing the finger at Judges. Your constant ranting about how the failure of New Zealand Government (albeit usually dressed up as attacks on one arm of the Government) makes me wonder why you don't hop on the plane to Iran.

Surely Iran wouldn't sicken you, they appear to have implemented all the Criminal Justice initiatives you want and a few more. Damn I know, too liberal for you and stoning people is so bleeding heart soft-cock isn't it?

Metla
05-09-2010, 12:15 PM
well, that justifies it then.

Excuse me while I smoke some crack, grab a gun, walk into a school,put on a blindfold and fire off a few random shots.

Lets see if I get stopped before the inevitable happens and someone gets killed.

Lets see if I can do this 17 times spread over a number of years, surely here in NZ they will just smack me on the hand and then let me go do it again, and again, and again, no ones dead yet, lets do it some more...

Whether you like it or not, stopping people from killing others is a good thing, But for some queer reason you do it with a car while boozed and its viewed differently by the justice system.

Twelvevolts
05-09-2010, 12:40 PM
well, that justifies it then.

Excuse me while I smoke some crack, grab a gun, walk into a school,put on a blindfold and fire off a few random shots.

Lets see if I get stopped before the inevitable happens and someone gets killed.

Lets see if I can do this 17 times spread over a number of years, surely here in NZ they will just smack me on the hand and then let me go do it again, and again, and again, no ones dead yet, lets do it some more...

Whether you like it or not, stopping people from killing others is a good thing, But for some queer reason you do it with a car while boozed and its viewed differently by the justice system.

Not sure what your school shooting trip fantasy has to do with it, but in the western world at least, intentionally causing a death generally gets a higher penalty than accidentally causing one. To cover off where an idiot drives a car where he could reasonably have expected to cause a crash, you have the charge of manslaughter.

Now you can quite rightly argue about the penalties for those offences and I'm sure everyone would pretty much universally agree this guy got off lightly, but in a case like this if the Police don't use the manslaughter charge (and I can't see what he was actually charged with), there is not a lot the Judge can then do impose a longer sentence.

Metla
05-09-2010, 12:48 PM
there is not a lot the Judge can then do impose a longer sentence.

Hence my thread title.

Let me know when you get up to speed.

Twelvevolts
05-09-2010, 12:51 PM
Hence my thread title.

Let me know when you get up to speed.

The guy who did it sickens me - not the whole country.

Cicero
05-09-2010, 02:04 PM
Having thought about it,Met and I have decided you are right,it's just you and him that sickens us.

Twelvevolts
05-09-2010, 02:24 PM
Having thought about it,Met and I have decided you are right,it's just you and him that sickens us.

Anything I can do to make you feel sick is all my pleasure. Take a panadol and stop sniveling for a week and you should feel better.

Cicero
05-09-2010, 02:53 PM
Anything I can do to make you feel sick is all my pleasure. Take a panadol and stop sniveling for a week and you should feel better.

Dispatching the cause might be better.

rob_on_guitar
05-09-2010, 02:53 PM
Harsh.

Twelvevolts
05-09-2010, 03:09 PM
Dispatching the cause might be better.

Your parents will be disappointed to hear that.

prefect
05-09-2010, 04:18 PM
Would someone ban 12v? he is just a trolling **** who will cause good people to lose it.

Digby
05-09-2010, 04:43 PM
What sickens me is that if any politician talks about getting tough, the greenies and the sickly white liberals say its against human rights or barbaric and the policitican shuts up.

In fact I blame the news media.

As soon as politician talks tough, instead of reporting his speech and interviewing him, they interview Keith Locke or Ken Workman or Peter (that laywer)

John H
05-09-2010, 05:07 PM
What sickens me is that if any politician talks about getting tough, the greenies and the sickly white liberals say its against human rights or barbaric and the policitican shuts up.
(snip)

So you would categorise prefect as a greenie or sickly white liberal? He is the only one on here that I can think of who has thrown a paddy about lowering the blood alcohol level! And the biggest supporters of the status quo in that regard are the booze barons and liquor industry spokespeople! Hardly greenies or sickly white liberals I would have thought.

Cicero
05-09-2010, 05:14 PM
Can you believe my pal Prefect is being attacked?

How do you attack perfection?

Twelvevolts
05-09-2010, 10:12 PM
Would someone ban 12v? he is just a trolling **** who will cause good people to lose it.

As usual - you guys dish it out but can't take it back.

Twelvevolts
05-09-2010, 10:17 PM
What sickens me is that if any politician talks about getting tough, the greenies and the sickly white liberals say its against human rights or barbaric and the policitican shuts up.

In fact I blame the news media.

As soon as politician talks tough, instead of reporting his speech and interviewing him, they interview Keith Locke or Ken Workman or Peter (that laywer)

The media is generally pro the Sensible Sentencing types. That's why we are building prisons flat tack at great expense to the tax payer.

Metla
05-09-2010, 10:45 PM
No use building prisons if the system is such that people like the one whose actions prompted this thread aren't locked away in them to protect the rest of society from their "flaws".

Twelvevolts
05-09-2010, 10:53 PM
No use building prisons if the system is such that people like the one whose actions prompted this thread aren't locked away in them to protect the rest of society from their "flaws".

He is locked in one of them.

Metla
05-09-2010, 10:58 PM
Too late now, someone else has paid the ultimate price for our weak system.

Lets hope there is a hell.

rob_on_guitar
06-09-2010, 12:25 AM
He is locked in one of them.

For four measly years. I hope someone bludgeons him to death with a bottle.

bob_doe_nz
06-09-2010, 12:45 AM
For four measly years. I hope someone bludgeons him to death with a bottle.

That would be the easy way out. If you're gonna kill someone, make them suffer till the end.

Twelvevolts
07-09-2010, 07:55 AM
Too late now, someone else has paid the ultimate price for our weak system.

Lets hope there is a hell.

You couldn't have prevented the death by having had a higher penalty, so the "weak system" has nothing at all to do with it. A guy like this will not change his mind about getting into the car because of the penalty, deterrence doesn't work on guys like this.

The longer penalty would of course delay his next return to his vehicle for the next potential offence.

rob_on_guitar
07-09-2010, 09:42 AM
I still like the idea of tattooing or branding the crime on the forehead. I think they did it on an old twilight zone episode

prefect
07-09-2010, 11:40 AM
Crooks here are dumb enough to tattoo themselves which the police have on file. Saw on TV feds taking piccy of crims tats, blardy good.
Quite amazes me a criminal would put an idelible mark on his body so he can be identified at the next crime.
That sentencing judge should be removed from bench by government very soon.

Metla
07-09-2010, 10:30 PM
You couldn't have prevented the death by having had a higher penalty, so the "weak system" has nothing at all to do with it. A guy like this will not change his mind about getting into the car because of the penalty, deterrence doesn't work on guys like this.

The longer penalty would of course delay his next return to his vehicle for the next potential offence.

The life lost was worth far more then the cost to the tax payer for keeping him locked up for life, and far more then what his "rights" are worth.

The system has failed,everyone.

Should have cut off his hands, that would **** em.

KenESmith
07-09-2010, 10:44 PM
Soft sentencing, failing to enforce penalties and weak law enforcement are not unique to New Zealand.
There is a young Australian named Scott Rush,(one of the Bali 9) sitting in gaol in Bali waiting to find out whether his death sentence for drug smuggling will be commuted to life imprisonment.
The tragedy for this young man, is that he had scored up not 1 but 5 separate suspended sentences for drug offences before he was aged 21, without ever seeing the inside of an Australian gaol. On the second offence the first suspended sentence should heve been invoked plus the additional penalty for the new offence added.

Maybe, just maybe, if he had gone inside, he may not have been so stupid as to get involved in heroin smuggling in Indonesia where the offence carries the death penaly.
The system did him no favours by letting him off the hook for repeated gaolable offences.

prefect
08-09-2010, 08:34 AM
Soft sentencing, failing to enforce penalties and weak law enforcement are not unique to New Zealand.
There is a young Australian named Scott Rush,(one of the Bali 9) sitting in gaol in Bali waiting to find out whether his death sentence for drug smuggling will be commuted to life imprisonment.
The tragedy for this young man, is that he had scored up not 1 but 5 separate suspended sentences for drug offences before he was aged 21, without ever seeing the inside of an Australian gaol. On the second offence the first suspended sentence should heve been invoked plus the additional penalty for the new offence added.

Maybe, just maybe, if he had gone inside, he may not have been so stupid as to get involved in heroin smuggling in Indonesia where the offence carries the death penaly.
The system did him no favours by letting him off the hook for repeated gaolable offences.

I hope he reflects on his druggie past as a flight of six 2.23" bullets fly towards his body.
The Indonesians have an interesting death penalty procedure, you are asleep in your cell next you are driven in the back of truck out in the country tied to a pole and shot dead. The people who do the firing squad are not marksmen so an officer quite often has to give the druggie a bullet to the swede to finish him off.
I love Indonesia.

Strommer
08-09-2010, 09:24 AM
I love Indonesia.

But would you live there?

"Torture, excessive use of force and unlawful killings by police and security forces continued." - Amnesty International, 2009 Report

prefect
08-09-2010, 09:26 AM
Nope I want to live in British Columbia and be a lumberjack.

Cicero
08-09-2010, 11:38 AM
Nope I want to live in British Columbia and be a lumberjack.

That I can understand after........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clPYfaTvHT0

KenESmith
08-09-2010, 12:16 PM
A Monty Python Lumberjack?

Twelvevolts
09-09-2010, 12:20 AM
Should have cut off his hands, that would **** em.

Back to Iran again.

rob_on_guitar
09-09-2010, 06:53 AM
Back to Iran again.

off you go then.

Cicero
09-09-2010, 07:38 AM
off you go then.

We have all decided to chip in to help him go.

Is there still a fast plane out.?