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Twelvevolts
14-08-2010, 02:42 PM
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/4024049/Filling-the-prisons

"It cost taxpayers $90,000 a year to keep a person in prison. And every extra prison bed built represents another $250,000 in capital spending" Bill English.

Expect your taxes to go up further.

angry
14-08-2010, 03:00 PM
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/4024049/Filling-the-prisons

"It cost taxpayers $90,000 a year to keep a person in prison. And every extra prison bed built represents another $250,000 in capital spending" Bill English.

Expect your taxes to go up further.

are youthey shure its up to ninety across the board now ???

prefect
14-08-2010, 03:29 PM
Who cares how much it costs its money well spent.
There is a certain group in our NZ community exactly mirrored in the USA that causes crime way outside their proportion of the population.
These people want to commit crime they have to do the time, as soon as you show some sort of leniency by soft sentencing they repay with further crime.
I dont care what the percentage is its just a fact of life crims need to be in jail its quite a simple concept that liberals struggle with.
Soon these poor crooks are going to be languishing in smoke free jails their stress levels are going to go thru the roof, see there is a god.

angry
14-08-2010, 03:49 PM
Who cares how much it costs its money well spent.
There is a certain group in our NZ community exactly mirrored in the USA that causes crime way outside their proportion of the population.
These people want to commit crime they have to do the time, as soon as you show some sort of leniency by soft sentencing they repay with further crime.
I dont care what the percentage is its just a fact of life crims need to be in jail its quite a simple concept that liberals struggle with.
Soon these poor crooks are going to be languishing in smoke free jails their stress levels are going to go thru the roof, see there is a god.

"Who cares how much it costs its money well spent."

Its money wasted, that much is not spent on the prisoners its spent on all the fat burecrats sucking on the public tit.

also we should have a death sentence because, any sentence over ten years should be classed as strange and unsuuall.

Most people who serve ten or more years in prison can no longer function as usefull members of society. they are better off gone.

stop them smoking, good way of increasing serious assaults on prison staff, and other prisoners. i suppose.

pctek
14-08-2010, 04:25 PM
Who cares how much it costs its money well spent.


Prison doesn't stop crime.
Capital punishment didn't either although I'd say that would be a stronger deterrent, cheaper and more effective. And I don't mean just the death penalty.

Metla
14-08-2010, 04:46 PM
It is indeed money well spent, Though once they get the numbers up they need to look at bringing the cost down.

For $50000 a year I will happily house a prisinor for a year and supply all basic needs and reasonable food.

Twelvevolts
14-08-2010, 04:56 PM
Who cares how much it costs its money well spent.
There is a certain group in our NZ community exactly mirrored in the USA that causes crime way outside their proportion of the population.
These people want to commit crime they have to do the time, as soon as you show some sort of leniency by soft sentencing they repay with further crime.
I dont care what the percentage is its just a fact of life crims need to be in jail its quite a simple concept that liberals struggle with.
Soon these poor crooks are going to be languishing in smoke free jails their stress levels are going to go thru the roof, see there is a god.

Facists apparently struggle with quite a simple concept that other people might not want to pay for their delusions.

mikebartnz
14-08-2010, 05:07 PM
For $50000 a year I will happily house a prisinor for a year and supply all basic needs and reasonable food.
Just bought a bread maker have you?:D

Metla
14-08-2010, 05:27 PM
3 loaves for $5 at the local dairy.....

B.M.
14-08-2010, 05:32 PM
Laws are for “Law Abiding People”, Prisons are for the Rest. ;)

What needs to happen is the costs of keeping prisoners are reduced.

So, it’s off with the heating and lighting, the Silver Tableware disposed of, out with Sky and the HDTV and you can continue the list.

As for Capital Punishment, don’t believe the tale that it doesn’t work. There has never been one single re-offender anywhere in the world. ;)

prefect
14-08-2010, 06:41 PM
What statistic the sickly liberals dont give is the amount of money saved by the crims being in jail and not causing crime.
The biggest problem I see in the justice system is judges not sentencing appropriately, why have maximums for crimes if they are never used?
The sickly liberal judges need to be fast tracked off the bench by the pressure of outraged citizens.

martynz
14-08-2010, 07:29 PM
"The sickly liberal judges need to be fast tracked off the bench by the pressure of outraged citizens."

Wishful thinking prefect. All you ever do is mouth off on here....they say talk is cheap.

Ever reflected on the possibility that crime is a reflection of the society in which it occurs.

Snorkbox
14-08-2010, 07:35 PM
For some reason I thought there was supposed to already be an agreement between the State and the Crims.

The Crims stop behaving in the manner they do and the State will stop putting them in Prison,

Sounds fair to me.

qazwsxokmijn
14-08-2010, 07:49 PM
The costs of keeping one prisoner alive per year is sickening. It's disgusting. $90k can feed two families for a year. My parents kept a family of five with just under $40k a year. And that's with a mortgage that siphoned money at a rate of nearly $1000 a month. Yeah, money's always been a constant thing on their minds, but I've never starved due to lack of food, never got sick without seeing the GP, and they always have money for anything school-related.

What in this god-forsaken world is the need of THAT much money to keep just ONE measly, worthless life???

pctek
14-08-2010, 07:56 PM
As for Capital Punishment, don’t believe the tale that it doesn’t work. There has never been one single re-offender anywhere in the world. ;)

You're talking about the death penalty.
I was not:

http://www.localhistories.org/pun.html

Twelvevolts
14-08-2010, 08:02 PM
What statistic the sickly liberals dont give is the amount of money saved by the crims being in jail and not causing crime.
The biggest problem I see in the justice system is judges not sentencing appropriately, why have maximums for crimes if they are never used?
The sickly liberal judges need to be fast tracked off the bench by the pressure of outraged citizens.

What statistic the sick facists don't give is the money saved by not putting people in prison for minor crimes because of the hysteria they themselves have created.

Metla
14-08-2010, 08:04 PM
http://www.localhistories.org/pun.html

Best page ever,and it contains the only item I have ever read that could make me respect the frogs.

"The guillotine was last used in France in 1977"

The boiling alive item is also pretty damn sweet,we could use that one.

Metla
14-08-2010, 08:08 PM
What statistic the sick facists don't give is the money saved by not putting people in prison for minor crimes because of the hysteria they themselves have created.

People don't go to prison for minor crimes, They pretty much have to dedicate there lives to making other peoples lives worse then they should be before anything is done about it.

Twelvevolts
14-08-2010, 08:15 PM
People don't go to prison for minor crimes, They pretty much have to dedicate there lives to making other peoples lives worse then they should be before anything is done about it.

Well we would be down to debating the meaning of minor which probably isn't worth the time of day.

Penn and Teller recently did an episode of Bullsh*t on Criminal Justice, so never mind minor crime because fact is you don't even have to commit any crime to end up in prison, and DNA testing is proving that with alarming regularity.

B.M.
14-08-2010, 08:47 PM
You're talking about the death penalty.
I was not:

http://www.localhistories.org/pun.html


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment

Metla
14-08-2010, 08:49 PM
Well we would be down to debating the meaning of minor which probably isn't worth the time of day.



Unlike all the rest of the discussion we participate in?

mikebartnz
14-08-2010, 11:10 PM
Wishful thinking prefect. All you ever do is mouth off on here....they say talk is cheap.

Ever reflected on the possibility that crime is a reflection of the society in which it occurs.
As you say talk is cheap so what is your solution?:groan:

Paul.Cov
14-08-2010, 11:21 PM
Well, how about castration for males who are either repeat offenders, violent offenders or sexual offenders... it'll save lots on the next generation of prisoners, and will likely do a lot to reduce reoffending, as well as making life easier for the other prisoners and guards once the prison population becomes dominated by newts.

There's probably a lot to be said for sterilizing the trash in the female prisons as well.

Bring back the chain gang and hard labour. Any bleeding heart liberals can be the first to get their legs placed in irons.

mikebartnz
15-08-2010, 12:37 AM
Well, how about castration for males who are either repeat offenders, violent offenders or sexual offenders... it'll save lots on the next generation of prisoners, and will likely do a lot to reduce reoffending, as well as making life easier for the other prisoners and guards once the prison population becomes dominated by newts.

There's probably a lot to be said for sterilizing the trash in the female prisons as well.

Bring back the chain gang and hard labour. Any bleeding heart liberals can be the first to get their legs placed in irons.
It would certainly be one way of stopping the cycle.
Bring back the pillory and stocks.

Snorkbox
15-08-2010, 12:44 AM
Actually I'm a great believer in the stocks. If used at an early age for youths that is. Nothing like a bit of humiliation for behaviour modification.

Cicero
15-08-2010, 01:16 AM
Unlike all the rest of the discussion we participate in?

Not keen on you getting soft on this fellow Met!:devil

angry
15-08-2010, 08:10 AM
What statistic the sick facists don't give is the money saved by not putting people in prison for minor crimes because of the hysteria they themselves have created.

Now here we have something intellegent, and correct.

which can be supported by stats.

nzl puts one of the largest % per capita of its population in prison in the western world.

The nanny state puts FAR TOO MANY of the wrong people in prison to satisfy vengance and police ego.

The same nanny state then fails to keep people like burton, bell, Ect firmly in prison for good where they belong. Hence more innocent members of the public are killed By recivadists who were obviously going to seriously offend again after release.

This is a symptom of our reactionary, revenue based legal system, in particular the police who are in reality nothing more than incompetent extortionist with badges.

see that the scott watson mess is back on the front of the sunday herald again.

another one on the long list.

aa thomas,

d bain,

P ellis,

D Tamahaire,

The clown mess,

Then I have to stop and start thinking because i can only remeber so many off the top of my head, and Im supposed to be doing something else.

angry
15-08-2010, 08:12 AM
People don't go to prison for minor crimes, They pretty much have to dedicate there lives to making other peoples lives worse then they should be before anything is done about it.

Metla,

People go to prison in this country for self defence if the extortionist police dont like them.

angry
15-08-2010, 08:20 AM
Well, how about castration for males who are either repeat offenders, violent offenders or sexual offenders... it'll save lots on the next generation of prisoners, and will likely do a lot to reduce reoffending, as well as making life easier for the other prisoners and guards once the prison population becomes dominated by newts.

There's probably a lot to be said for sterilizing the trash in the female prisons as well.

Bring back the chain gang and hard labour. Any bleeding heart liberals can be the first to get their legs placed in irons.

"Well, how about castration for males who are either repeat offenders, violent offenders or sexual offenders"

Historically this has been proven NOT TO WORK. when the castrates /eunicks reenter society, they commit attrocious acts pf barbarity and violence because they can not relese their frustrstions in other ways.

Lock them up for good, or if the society is humane pecefully euthanise them best for all concerened.

pctek
15-08-2010, 09:33 AM
"Well, how about castration for males who are either repeat offenders, violent offenders or sexual offenders"

Historically this has been proven NOT TO WORK. when the castrates /eunicks reenter society, they commit attrocious acts pf barbarity and violence because they can not relese their frustrstions in other ways.
.

Really? Where's the evidence? The arab Sultans didn't have a problem with crazed eununchs running amok in their harems committing violence on people because of drustration.

besides if you have one form of physical punishment, you'll have others - so they're castrated first, then if they commit acts of barbarity then they get some other punishment.

Cicero
15-08-2010, 09:41 AM
Metla,

People go to prison in this country for self defence if the extortionist police dont like them.

The chap who was defending himself from tagger,is a case in point!

angry
15-08-2010, 09:54 AM
Really? Where's the evidence? The arab Sultans didn't have a problem with crazed eununchs running amok in their harems committing violence on people because of drustration.

besides if you have one form of physical punishment, you'll have others - so they're castrated first, then if they commit acts of barbarity then they get some other punishment.

The majority of eunuchs in harems were infact slaves from birth, or volenteers. as opposed to punished criminalls, so inherently much more compliant from the start.

In the 12th century, which saw much violent and agressive muslim expansion.

casteration and complete emasculation was used on slaves, and captives as a metheod of controll.

the intent being to make them more compliant.

it was found however to frequently have the opposite effect. particularly when slaves escaped, their acts of barbarity and mahem were found to be horrific, also they normally had to be killed when finally cornered, as they would refuse to be captured a second.

This practice was discontinued from the early 13th for the above reasons.

most criminals casterated or suffering amputation, die slowly from resulting infections and lack of medical care. which is part of the intent in this vengance style punishment.

:)

angry
15-08-2010, 10:01 AM
The chap who was defending himself from tagger,is a case in point!

he was defending his property from a repeat raceialy targeted attack, as opposed to his person.

he slightly over reacted.

But he should have recieved a suspende sentence IMHO.

:)

Cicero
15-08-2010, 10:17 AM
he was defending his property from a repeat raceialy targeted attack, as opposed to his person.

he slightly over reacted.

But he should have recieved a suspende sentence IMHO.

:)

Do we choose how we over-react?

angry
15-08-2010, 10:32 AM
Do we choose how we over-react?

You could write severall books on that one.

I dont belive we allways do.

If it had of been a PROVEN PREMEDETATED ACT it would have been reflected in sentencing (One would expect).

I dont belive it was.

Is a spontaneous reaction, caused by pentup rage and frustration, from a recipient/victim of repeat racial victimisation, and racially targeted crime, a choice, or a reaction???

Metla
15-08-2010, 10:58 AM
Metla,

People go to prison in this country for self defence if the extortionist police dont like them.

Everyone I know who has ever been to prison deserved to be there, and its a damn shame a couple of them were ever let out, they maybe intelligent enough to stay under the police radar but they are dangerous people every minute of every hour of every day for the rest of their lives, and they live amongst us.

No system is perfect, Some get picked up when they shouldn't,some (many) avoid jail when thats the only place they should be.

Metla
15-08-2010, 11:00 AM
But he should have recieved a suspende sentence IMHO.

:)

For chasing down and stabbing someone half his size to death?

He should have been boiled alive, children do not deserve to be murdered by adults, there is no defense or justification.

Cicero
15-08-2010, 11:44 AM
Is a spontaneous reaction, caused by pentup rage and frustration, from a recipient/victim of repeat racial victimisation, and racially targeted crime, a choice, or a reaction???

Some seem to think that sorting young crap out was that mans hobby,it was not,he was taken to the edge.

martynz
15-08-2010, 01:05 PM
As you say talk is cheap so what is your solution?:groan:

How about some thinking outside the box of foaming at the mouth savagery....like this
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/jul/21/texas-offenders-reading-courses

And if they can't read teach them.

prefect
15-08-2010, 01:17 PM
How about some thinking outside the box of foaming at the mouth savagery....like this
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/jul/21/texas-offenders-reading-courses

And if they can't read teach them.

Nah wont work, splitting rocks like crims did at Robin Island much better.
Tried new age **** before didnt work,will never work.
I am happy with the gazetted punishments for crime in NZ but judges give out sentences less than the maximum.
Foaming at the mouth is a normal response to crime it must work because mainstream politicians in NZ around election time espouse harsher sentences. Its a vote winner. We have some nice harsh laws on the books now, just got to apply them.

Metla
15-08-2010, 01:37 PM
Some seem to think that sorting young crap out was that mans hobby,it was not,he was taken to the edge.

Being weak is a poor excuse for murdering a child.

I'm sure that the majority of murderers are on the edge when they lash out and kill another person, should we let all the poor dears off the hook?

angry
15-08-2010, 01:41 PM
Being weak is a poor excuse for murdering a child.

I'm sure that the majority of murderers are on the edge when they lash out and kill another person, should we let all the poor dears off the hook?

"Being weak is a poor excuse for murdering a child."

without checking my memory says conviction was manslaughter???

Metla
15-08-2010, 01:44 PM
So?

Cicero
15-08-2010, 01:46 PM
Being weak is a poor excuse for murdering a child.

I'm sure that the majority of murderers are on the edge when they lash out and kill another person, should we let all the poor dears off the hook?

An example that comes to mind,is of a woman driven to murder by nasty husband,quite often looked on kindly..
In your "child's"case it was the other way round.believe me if he had been playing rugby instead,he would still be with us.

Metla
15-08-2010, 01:46 PM
Just a question, who here would give me there blessing to chase down and stab in the heart one of thier children if they commuted the sin of tagging?

angry
15-08-2010, 01:52 PM
Just a question, who here would give me there blessing to chase down and stab in the heart one of thier children if they commuted the sin of tagging?

:thumbs:

you could do it for me.

I did many bad things as a youth, vandalism was never one of them.

Cicero
15-08-2010, 02:16 PM
Just a question, who here would give me their blessing to chase down and stab in the heart one of their children if they commited the sin of tagging?

None of these things happen like that.

I am sure the chap didn't set out to kill.

I would say that 50% of murders are not cold blooded,or premeditated.

Cicero
15-08-2010, 02:18 PM
:thumbs:

you could do it for me.

I did many bad things as a youth, vandalism was never one of them.

I think the thugs in question thought they could do as they pleased.

Certainly some on here would want to give them a medal for art work.

You have to watch these PC people.

mikebartnz
15-08-2010, 02:56 PM
How about some thinking outside the box of foaming at the mouth savagery....like this
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/jul/21/texas-offenders-reading-courses

And if they can't read teach them.
Interesting.
A few years ago I was doing a job over at the Palmerston North Youth Justice centre and happened to see through a window into a room where they kept books and things. Those books most people would have finished reading almost before they got to school. I was horrified that so many could slip through the cracks of our education system. Those kids were 13 to 17.

Metla
15-08-2010, 03:13 PM
I am sure the chap didn't set out to kill.



He chose to take a knife,he chose to chase him down, and he chose to use that knife against him, his choices resulted in a death.

At every step he could have chosen to not kill him, So he is the only person responsible for the path he took, and society is obligated to punish him accordingly.

Cicero
15-08-2010, 03:17 PM
He chose to take a knife,he chose to chase him down, and he chose to use that knife against him, his choices resulted in a death.

At every step he could have chosen to not kill him, So he is the only person responsible for the path he took, and society is obligated to punish him accordingly.

Alas we must agree to differ.

Mine is based on ones home being his castle,and is sacrosanct.

wotz
15-08-2010, 04:01 PM
I once heard it said that we need another world war to improve the gene pool.

mikebartnz
15-08-2010, 05:07 PM
I once heard it said that we need another world war to improve the gene pool.
The only trouble with that is we often loose the best genes through war.

Cicero
15-08-2010, 05:29 PM
I once heard it said that we need another world war to improve the gene pool.

Was the utterer called Hitler?

angry
15-08-2010, 10:14 PM
So?

no premeditation in manslaughter.

angry
15-08-2010, 10:16 PM
Was the utterer called Hitler?

would have to have been