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Buzz123
29-10-2009, 06:43 PM
My house is wired with red,black green wiring and the bathroom heater which I wish to update,is hard wired. It has a metal shell and 1 green wire is attached to this. I wish to upgrade the heater and have purchased a plastic model that has only 2 wires for connection, brown and blue. . Which wire connects to what and I beleive the green is the earth, what do I do with this.
I am thinking the green can just be disconnected and taped back out of the way.????
Brown to red;black to Blue????
Thoughts please
Ta

Speedy Gonzales
29-10-2009, 06:49 PM
Get an expert to do it, if you have no idea what youre doing. Or you'll be your name literally

wainuitech
29-10-2009, 06:50 PM
This is Aussie, but they have the same as NZ Wire color diagram (http://www.accesscomms.com.au/Reference/powerplug.htm)

Buzz123
29-10-2009, 07:10 PM
Thanx.
I know the dangers but I still wanna find out which goes to which and if the green can be ignored
Thanx

R2x1
29-10-2009, 07:22 PM
Brown replaces the old-style Red for the Phase, or Active connection; Blue replaces the old-style Black for the neutral conductor; and the new style earth lead is green-yellow striped replacing the older green wiring.
An appliance that is double insulated does not require an earth connection - indeed, it should not have one.

The electricity is unchanged and makes the same old multi-coloured stars in your eyes when you grab a bit of it.

gary67
29-10-2009, 07:26 PM
Wise words indeed R2x1. By the way what sort of Penguin are you?

Buzz123
29-10-2009, 07:36 PM
Thanx all for the info. It has confirmed my thoughts on the connections and I am really impressed by the swiftness of the answers. Thanx again and if R2x1 is indeed a Penguin, watch out for sharks

sammo450
30-10-2009, 12:30 PM
That's certainly one advantage NZ has over Australia, here we can rewire an entire house without a license(but not the meter box), over the ditch you can't change the element in an electric jug without a license.

paulw
30-10-2009, 12:59 PM
Can never understand the logic in changing the color code. Must have been a European me to thing..

rustyreggae
30-10-2009, 01:52 PM
Sorry to disagree with you sammo450, but it is not recommended to do DIY electrical work in NZ. Infact an electrical certificate is required for any hardwiring in a NZ house and can prevent a house being sold without this certificate. Imagine a fire is started and the house burns down? The insurance company will not pay out if you do not have certificates for any wiring. My brother inlaw is an electrician and refused to do any wiring in our house (just back from Oz) untill he had his NZ license.

pine-o-cleen
30-10-2009, 06:14 PM
Can never understand the logic in changing the color code. Must have been a European me to thing..Brown for phase, blue for neutral and green / yellow for earth is the American standard. We adopted it when American companies started producing 230v appliances for our use and being American, they refused to change color codes.

Safari
30-10-2009, 07:00 PM
Brown for phase, blue for neutral and green / yellow for earth is the American standard. We adopted it when American companies started producing 230v appliances for our use and being American, they refused to change color codes.

That is not the American standard at all.
We are conforming to the UK/European standard

gary67
30-10-2009, 07:02 PM
You definatley can't do your own wiring Sammo heck if you could I would have rewired my house by now, luckily for me I work in the construction industry as a Joiner and can call in favors when i need wiring done

Terry Porritt
30-10-2009, 07:32 PM
There seems to be confusion over what can and cannot be done as a member of the public, ie as a none qualified electrician or electrical engineer.

These publications give the low down:

"A Guide to Doing your Own Electrical Work Safely and Legally"

http://www.ess.govt.nz/templates/MultipageDocumentTOC____18598.aspx

http://www.ess.govt.nz/upload/31994/brochure.pdf

"The following are the main electrical
repairs you can do yourself at your
home...
For a full list of the electrical repairs you can do on
your home, refer to regulation 47 of the Electricity
Regulations 1997:
1.Replace switches; socket outlets, lamp holders,
ceiling roses, water heater switches, thermo-
stats and elements.
2.Repair light fittings.
3.Move, repair or replace flexible cords that are
connected to permanently connected outlets or
ceiling roses.
4.Disconnect and
reconnect perma-
nently wired
appliances.
5.Move switches,
sockets and lighting
outlets, but only if
they are wired with
tough plastic
sheathed cables.
6.Install, extend, or alter any cables, except the
main cables that come from the street to your
switchboard.
Make sure the power is
switched off before you start"



....and in more detail
http://www.ess.govt.nz/upload/33458/ecp51v18.pdf.

It is interesting that as NZ has relaxed regulations somewhat allowing a bit more electrical work by Joe Blogs, they have been tightened up in the UK since 2005, whereas before then there was little restriction, I suspect because of the massive influx of third world immigrants/refugees whose knowledge would be less than minimal.

R2x1
30-10-2009, 10:54 PM
It is interesting that as NZ has relaxed regulations somewhat allowing a bit more electrical work by Joe Blogs, they have been tightened up in the UK since 2005, whereas before then there was little restriction, I suspect because of the massive influx of third world immigrants/refugees whose knowledge would be less than minimal.
Would it be fair to say with the example of Lucas in front of them, the UK legislators said the damn electricity is pretty dangerous stuff on the rare occasions it actually flows, so we must permit only the annointed mages to meddle there? ;)

wmoore
31-10-2009, 10:19 AM
That is not the American standard at all.
We are conforming to the UK/European standard

The USA colours are

Black-Live
White-neutral
Green-Earth

Poppa John
31-10-2009, 10:35 AM
You can do any wiring in your house that you want. As long as you have a registered electrician inspect it & issue the requisite certificate. That then makes Him responsible fo the wiring integrity.

Very few electricians would be willing to do that. I never did. PJ

prefect
31-10-2009, 12:45 PM
Would it be fair to say with the example of Lucas in front of them, the UK legislators said the damn electricity is pretty dangerous stuff on the rare occasions it actually flows, so we must permit only the annointed mages to meddle there? ;)

Mega lol
Read a while ago us soldiers have been electrocuted to death by wiring in the showers and accommodation in Iraq And Afghanistan.
Electricity and water a bit of a bugger combo.
Imo the change of colours is a good thing because you have to think twice before wiring stuff up. I have a laminated A4 thingy with the colours.

paulw
31-10-2009, 02:33 PM
Brown for phase, blue for neutral and green / yellow for earth is the American standard. We adopted it when American companies started producing 230v appliances for our use and being American, they refused to change color codes.

Last time I look US standard was black = live, white = neutral and green = ground..

Terry Porritt
31-10-2009, 03:04 PM
Would it be fair to say with the example of Lucas in front of them, the UK legislators said the damn electricity is pretty dangerous stuff on the rare occasions it actually flows, so we must permit only the annointed mages to meddle there? ;)

I suppose even the nominal 12 volts of the Lucas car systems, or even the 6 volts of the British motorbikes were dangerous in the hands of the uninitiated.
However for those of us brought up in the ways of Lucas there was never any danger.

It would have been around 1964/65, I remember because I was at English Electric then, and I remember we talked about it....... that for flexible appliance cables the brown - blue - green/yellow colours were introduced.

This was to harmonise with European practise, to show goodwill, even though General De Gaulle had rejected Britain's application with his famous saying "Non".

It has taken all this time for UK TPS house wiring to change from red/black/green.

There was the same reluctance to harmonise with sausages, Brussels years ago wanted Britain to abandon its traditional bread filled pork 'bangers' and adopt European sausages. I've rather lost track of events since then.............

gary67
31-10-2009, 04:27 PM
Bloody French no wonder we hate them so much

pheonix
31-10-2009, 05:34 PM
I have been told we changed colours to the European standard due to a form common colour blindness. I can't recall which colours of red , black and green that were mixed up , but 2 of them were indistinguishable.
Hence also why the green has the yellow stripe through it to further distinguish the safety earth wire.

Safari
31-10-2009, 05:46 PM
I have been told we changed colours to the European standard due to a form common colour blindness. I can't recall which colours of red , black and green that were mixed up , but 2 of them were indistinguishable.
Hence also why the green has the yellow stripe through it to further distinguish the safety earth wire.

I heard that as well. Many people have trouble distinguishing between red and green.

Poppa John
01-11-2009, 02:32 AM
I heard that as well. Many people have trouble distinguishing between red and green.


Nah, you're thinking off traffic lights not wire coulours.And yes the colour change was to match the continental colour system. They would not buy British machinery otherwise. Didn't stop them accepting Free Wrong Coloured Wire Machinery tho. PJ

Terry Porritt
01-11-2009, 12:38 PM
Nah, you're thinking off traffic lights not wire coulours.And yes the colour change was to match the continental colour system. They would not buy British machinery otherwise. Didn't stop them accepting Free Wrong Coloured Wire Machinery tho. PJ

It was somewhat even worse than that Poppa, not just different colours. At the time I worked in the machine tool industry, UK was on 240v, most of Europe including Germany, France, Italy were on 220 volts, with corresponding 3 phase voltages. I think Switzerland was 230 v.

So machine tool equipment sold to europe had to conform to their standards, and we had to supply 220v/380v gear.

It didn't stop there, though generally in the UK we designed and built to British Standards, some of the larger firms had their own in house standards.
So for example to sell to British Leyland, we had to alter designs a tad to conform to British Leyland......no wonder they went down the tubes.

The Longbridge place was also "full" of saboteurs, especially on night shift. Equipment would be working ok at the end of day shift, and wrecked/seized up at end of night shift.

SKF at Luton was interesting, they had 240v/100Hz supply around the factory which was used to to power high speed-high power internal grinding spindles. This meant that motors ran at 6000rpm which was much easier on the belt drives when running a spindle at around 30,000/50,000rpm at 10 Hp

Billy T
02-11-2009, 08:54 AM
I heard that as well. Many people have trouble distinguishing between red and green.

Red-green colour blindness is quite common. When I was training we were checked for this disability right at the start and you couldn't enter the electrical or electronics trades if you failed. Testing continued at least until the mid 1980's because I knew a young man who was rejected for an electrical apprenticeship because he was R-G colour blind. He went off and joined the Krishnas instead.

Apparently he had no dress sense or musical ability either.

Cheers

Billy 8-{)

SurferJoe46
02-11-2009, 09:12 AM
The USA colours are

Black-Live
White-neutral
Green-Earth

Close!

Black is hot, like you said, and the white is Neutral.

The BARE copper wire is ground AND is tied with the WHITE.

Our wiring is (in the same conduit) one-each of the following:


WHITE
BLACK
BARE COPPER.

IF there's a GREEN in the sheath, then it's tied to the case ground of the appliance and conduit or j-box.

This is ONLY true in a home-run from the panel to the outlet/receptacle. IF the Romex is a switch-leg, then both the BLACK & the WHITE are considered HOT.

GREEN wires don't usually get called out in wiring, as they are considered CASE or EQUIPMENT GROUNDS only and are not usually allowed to carry any current unless something fails. The true ground is "floating" and is considered "potential" and returns along with the WHITE/BARE wire in the same sheath or Romex.

Pix #1 is called "12-2" Romex, and has the required WHITE - BLACK & BARE wire of equal sizes in it. It carries 110-118V on the Black leg and returns to the distribution panel via the WHITE wire for a complete circuit. The BARE wire acts as a ground and is also tied to the WHITE-COMMON bus in that same panel or "d-box" as we call it.

Pix #2 is called "12-3" Romex and can carry two separate 110-118V circuits with the RED and the BLACK as HOT legs, the WHITE as the common return and the bare again acting as an auxiliary ground and protection for the circuit should the WHITE fail or become resistive.

12-3 can ALSO be used to combine both the RED and the BLACK legs for 220-240V power, using the WHITE and the BARE as both grounds. 220V does NOT require a ground to make it work as the hot legs are sufficient to carry the current at 220V.

In the US we actually have dual-voltages in our homes for whatever needs and power we have to have for a loaded or motor-circuit or just lower power for things like lighting.

Pix #3 is a typical d-box or power panel.

decibel
02-11-2009, 01:47 PM
Pix #3 is a typical d-box or power panel.

Are those punch-down (IDC) terminations in Pix #3 ??

SurferJoe46
02-11-2009, 03:32 PM
Are those punch-down (IDC) terminations in Pix #3 ??

By that I think you've seen some of those press-in connections in 1990s mobile homes in the US.

The ones depicted here are screw and flange type connections with a screw pressing down - if not on the bared wire itself - on a "shoe" that shields the wire from the actual screw.

Across the top of the box are three heavy cables (the "pole-drop from the electrical provider) that are locked into three "buses" that are (in order) "A-leg", "B" Leg, "Common Leg".

You can see these buses as the aluminum bars with all the set screws and wires terminating in them. Notice there are three bus bars. The COMMON Bus has a cable coming into it with a white marker (just visible at the top of the pix) to signify it's classification and it is the right farthest bus in the d-box.

Alternately, the breakers take power from both the "A" and "B" legs, and it is designed to have the two voltages occur in the same slot so that the doubled voltage of 220-288 can be sent through the same pair of wires in the same conduit or Romex.

Many times I have installed "minis" in these positions to get two separate legs sent down the same conduit, only to break off in the same receptacle box to provide power for two heavy draw 120V devices like a dishwasher and a disposal receptacle under the same kitchen sink. It just makes it a lot easier to make one "home-run" with the wires, carrying two distinct and different phases of 120V power.

Each leg (A & B) are 120-130 volts AC and the common is used as a return to the utility company.

Together, both A + B equals 240 volts. For this voltage, the common is not called into use as a return.

There are several interchangeable voltages in the US that range from 110V to 128 V on each leg and together they can equal 208 Volts to 288 volts - don't ask me how, it's "just so".

Some older systems had 108-117V on each leg, but they are almost all gone by now. Our appliances and devices can operate on a fairly broad array of voltages, as long as the values are within some logical limits.

We have TRIAD and DELTA, which is a type of transformer design, that can be used interchangeably, but the trend is to go TRIAD and 117V/288V.

It might sound confusing, but if you born here, you'd understand a lot better.

NZ 220 volt-single leg stuff is kinda nuts-o to me.

I'm including a mobile home "snap-in" box that takes a wire and presses it between two sharp posts that both strips the wire at that point and makes an electrical connection, These are cheap, but somehow they work and don't have any real troubles. I had them in my last home in Hemet, and they never gave me any troubles. They were just nasty to work with if you needed to make changes and modifications, that's all.

decibel
02-11-2009, 09:59 PM
NZ 220 volt-single leg stuff is kinda nuts-o to me.

Noo - it's easy, what we would call "a piece of piss"

We are just like all the rest of the world - oh! except for you guys.:thumbs:

SurferJoe46
03-11-2009, 05:12 PM
I bet you DO self-micturate when you bump into a bad wire at 220V.

decibel
05-11-2009, 10:20 PM
I bet you DO self-micturate when you bump into a bad wire at 220V.

You have been busy with the dictionary !:rolleyes:

SurferJoe46
06-11-2009, 04:17 AM
You have been busy with the dictionary !:rolleyes:

Nah - I learned that in 7th grade in New Jersey where I got most of my primary education (1-8 grades).

zqwerty
06-11-2009, 08:38 AM
From experience I can say that you taste ozone in your mouth.

SurferJoe46
06-11-2009, 02:20 PM
From experience I can say that you taste ozone in your mouth.

At 220, you will also get a "Fro"

R2x1
06-11-2009, 06:13 PM
At 220, you will also get a "Fro"
That particular styling job is warranted to last a lifetime too. ;)